Dessie Williams at 91 - Family, Faith and How Things Have Changed

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Hi and welcome to Author Conversations with me, Chris Dabbs,

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as usual. Today we have got a guest who says

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she's not very good with computers, but I tell you what,

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Desi is really good with computers, you believe me. Now,

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I'm going to tell you a bit about what Desi's

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written and then we'll say hello to her, as usual really.

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But Desi's written about something that's quite interesting, family, right?

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There are family memoirs which remember people, and then there

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are books which seem almost to preserve an entire world.

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So it's not just about just who it is that

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they're being written about, it's everything else. Now, Desi's book,

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His Wonders to Perform, takes us into the lives of

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Mama and Daddy, Anna and Willie Horn, the communities in

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which they lived, the wisdom handed down through generations, the

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realities of racism and working life, and eventually to young

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cousin Robert Battle. And what stuck with me when reading

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through is that you don't turn your family, Desi, into

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saints at all. You're, you know, yes, they're funny, they're proud,

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they're difficult, they're courageous and sometimes wonderfully contradictory, I found.

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So I want to begin with the decision to preserve

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their stories at all. So, Desi, welcome to us, to

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Author Conversations. And obviously you're here to tell us about

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your book. But, you know, really, was there a moment

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when things had to be written? These stopped being simply

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the stories you remembered about Mama and Daddy and your family.

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And you thought, if I don't write this down, a

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piece of our history could disappear. Was that useful to you,

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do you think?

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Yes. When Robert had his good fortune, originally, you know,

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we thought he just got a chance to go to

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college and... after he won the Juilliard scholarship, get a

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chance to go to college and become a teacher in

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the high schools. But then he went to Juilliard, and

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then later, when he was selected to head up the

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Alvin Ailey dance group, I couldn't believe that. I mean,

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the kid had gone from being a cripple at birth,

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very bow-legged, there's a disease with the extremely bow-legged, I

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thought that what a wonderful thing to have happen and

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to happen to in a most unlikely set of circumstances.

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So I just thought it was too much good fortune

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and blessing of God to be wasted and not nobody know.

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So that's that's what sort of mesmerized me to write

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the book. And also every every year before school opened,

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I was a school teacher for many years. Every September,

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I wanted to write a book. That's when my urge came,

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but I never did. But it was only after I

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retired and Robert had achieved his good fortune that I

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really sat down and put words to paper. All right.

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OK, so do you think it was because you didn't

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want to go back to school? You just wanted to

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extend that vacation?

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I think so.

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I think we've all been there, haven't we? Oh, my gosh. Well,

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you know what? You're going to tell us about Robert

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later on as well, I think, because you know all

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of this is really you know super interesting especially obviously

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i'm over well i say obviously but i'm over in

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england and you know the the way that the states

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works and it has been over the years is very

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different to how it is and has been here um

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so i mean did you when you were like i

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guess thinking about all of this let's go back to

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mama and daddy i mean you write that mama and

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daddy had had very little formal education right but which

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i which i guess was the way it was back

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then yeah i mean you know yes you know um

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but reading these stories they don't strike me as uneducated

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people at all it's not like they were you know

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i'm trying i was trying trying to be polite there

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um just because you haven't had an education does not

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make you stupid does it let's face it right that's

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exactly right yeah and so and what did so what

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did anna and willie understand about life then that no

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classroom could have taught them i bet there's a few

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things I.

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Think they understood that you have to keep trying no

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matter in what circumstances you find yourself. And being in

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the circumstances that they were, my father went to the

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sixth grade, my mother went to the third, but they

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found each other in life. And I'm assuming they fell

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in love. Of course, my mother had been married before.

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I understand. But she and daddy found themselves at the frolic,

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which the black people used to have on weekends because,

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you know, they... They didn't have a whole lot of

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socialized clubs to attend, so the people gathered together on

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weekends at somebody's house, and they had what you call frolics,

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and that's where they met. And Daddy, Mama told me,

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said that Daddy said she was the best-looking woman he

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had ever seen. And she kept wondering why he kept

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looking at her. So anyway, they got together, and they

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were strong together. They were very strong. Mama was a

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little bit stronger than Daddy because I noticed as we

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went through life, She was always the one who did

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the urging. And he would say, oh, Anna, I don't

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want to do that. But she would say, man, you

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can do it. Go ahead, Willie. Go ahead, Willie. And

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it would get done. So there you go.

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That sounds like my wife.

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They were wonderful people. They were wonderful people. And I

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noticed that one of your questions was, why would you

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call your book His Wonders to Perform? And so I

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think about that. I think about my parents. Each one

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of them, in their own way, was a wonder. My

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mother was a wonder because she could do a lot

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of stuff. My mother could chop wood like a man. Yes,

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she was feminine. My mother would put on boots and

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go into the river and pick up oysters. Daddy was

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too scared to go. He thought he'd drown. And she

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would get oysters, and we would get them in a

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croaker sack, a burlap sack, and take them home. And

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Daddy would build a fire in the backyard, put a

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piece of tin over the fire, and we'd put the

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oysters on top of the tin, and we'd sit around

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the yard with Knives, my brother Jack, and my sister

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Bernice and me, because Bernice was a bit young, but

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my brother Jack and me. And we would sit around

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that by eating those oysters in a place called Old Town,

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where we first lived. I tell you, there was nothing

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like it. It was beautiful.

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Brilliant. And, of course, as you say, you know, your

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dad was scared of drowning in the river. So, yeah,

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get your mother to do it.

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Right. Okay. Daddy was not what you would call noticeably brave,

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but I'll tell you, he was a man of strength, determination,

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and integrity. Yeah. And a man with dignity. Even though

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he knew who he was, He knew what the situation

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was in terms of the world and racial situation back

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in the day. But he still managed to hang on

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to some dignity. He meant to have some dignity. He

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wasn't going to be Steppenfetchit. You know who Steppenfetchit was? No, no,

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go on. Steppenfetchit was one of the clowns that, you know,

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blackface Steppenfetchit on the stage.

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Oh, right, right, right.

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Yeah, Daddy didn't want to be that. He wanted to

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be a man with dignity because he had children who

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looked up to him. And there you go. And I

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have so much respect for my father. I really do.

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I can hear that. Oh, that's really good, though, isn't it?

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I mean, you know, to have that. I think, again,

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I hope my children say something nice about me later on.

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And what's this story then about daddy and a rattlesnake?

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And what? And mama insisting that he kill it? You

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realize that day, though, that someone could be frightened and

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brave at the same time, which is what you're saying,

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isn't it? Tell us about that.

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There was a place that we always went. We went

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down to the dump. This was like on Sundays, we

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would go to the dump. And we walked through the

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stuff and people had stuff, people had thrown away. My

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brother and I would find the old toys and we'd

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take them home and fix them up. And we did that.

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But this particular day, we were walking. Mama had planted

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a garden down the way. There was a pipeline there.

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that ran from the Rainier Pult Mill. There was a

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pipeline and water, sulfur water, passed through there. People drank

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that water. It was good, too. But this particular day,

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we were walking on the bulwark, and Mama spotted a

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sick snake down on the ground. The bulwark wasn't that

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far above the ground, but it was above the ground.

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And she said, will it get there? Kill that snake.

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Daddy said, that snake ain't bothering me. Why do you

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want me to jump and kill it? But he always

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took a hold because they had to work Mama's garden

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when we got down to where it was. She had

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mustard greens planted and watermelon seeds and everything. But she

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forced him. Well, she browbeat him into going down there

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to kill the snake. And he didn't want to go.

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But he did go. And he did manage to kill

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the snake, even though he was frightened to death. I

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could tell it because he was turning. Daddy was dosking

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him in, but he was looking a little ashy when

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he came back up on the boardwalk. But he did

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kill the snake. That let me know that my daddy

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was brave, even though he was scared. I watched that.

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And I admired him for that. I thought mama was

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very mean to make daddy go down there and kill

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that snake.

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Yeah, you could say that. Yeah, exactly. I mean, especially,

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you know, as daddy was saying that the snake wasn't

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doing anything to him. I mean, you know, but the

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snake could have hurt somebody else. I get it.

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Yeah.

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That's true I mean but that really does capture something

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about your father doesn't it you know how as you

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say the dignity and the courage and all of that

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stuff I mean you've got another you've got another story

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about daddy, which is, which is much harder at this time.

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It's about what, one time he worked for a white

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man and basically was racially abused him. And when your

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father stood up for his own dignity.

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The guys, you know, you know, the guy's name was Mr. George. And,

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you know, I, I've never hated white people because I

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think that, uh, yeah, I believe what, uh, what the

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girl wrote, uh, and Francis wrote, people are really good

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at heart and they, a lot of white people were

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not what for them, you know, a lot of good

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white people coming along in the really bad days and

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they helped out black people a lot. But sometimes, sometimes

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we are, um, we are affected by our culture, whether

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we realize it or not. And in moments of stress

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or anger, we may retaliate with some words that we

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didn't know we possessed in our vocabulary. At this particular day, Daddy,

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we worked with this white man for a long time.

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They were good buddies, Mr. George and my father. They

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worked on the beach back where the woods were, and

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they cut trees. He was some kind of little minor

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official with the state of Florida, Mr. George was. And

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Daddy worked with him. Daddy worked with him. He liked

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Daddy because Daddy was bright and did stuff and had

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a lot of good ideas. But this particular day, Mr.

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George had an idea about how to cut down a tree.

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And Daddy said, no, Mr. George, you don't do it

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that way. This is the better way, so and so

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and so. And so Mr. George did not like Daddy

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speaking to him in that tone of voice, like he

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was retarded or something. And so Mr. George said, nigga,

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so and so and so. And Daddy said, Daddy was

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stung because he had thought that he and Mr. George

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were buddies, were friends, you know, and Mr. George would

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not call him something like that and so he did

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and so daddy said to Mr. George Mr. George you

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can't talk to me like that I'm a man and

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that made Mr. George so mad he turned red all

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over ran and hopped in the jeep that they traveled

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in and daddy had to run all over the white

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sandy dunes that were adjacent to the beach to keep Mr.

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George from running him over but daddy managed to escape

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And he came home that day and told Mama about it.

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I listened because I was always eavesdropping. That's how I

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heard stuff to go in my book.

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Yeah.

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And Danny refused to go back to the job because

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a man had treated him that way. And so he

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stayed off until Mr. George came to the house and said, Willie,

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I don't know what got into me, but you're going

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to have to look over me. So and so, I

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need you to come back to work, Willie. Anyway, as

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far as apologies go, in that period, from a white

239
00:12:35.240 --> 00:12:37.429
man to a black man, that was it. And Daddy

240
00:12:37.470 --> 00:12:40.110
did go back to work with him. But Daddy requires

241
00:12:40.149 --> 00:12:43.539
his dignity. And I was so proud of him. I

242
00:12:43.559 --> 00:12:45.740
was so proud of my father. Even though I was

243
00:12:45.799 --> 00:12:48.120
a little girl. I was very bright for my age.

244
00:12:48.639 --> 00:12:51.860
And I watched a lot of stuff.

245
00:12:51.919 --> 00:12:54.990
Well, oh man. I mean, obviously it's something I can't,

246
00:12:55.070 --> 00:12:57.269
you know, I can't get my head around. I mean,

247
00:12:57.690 --> 00:12:59.250
as you say, I think that most people are good

248
00:12:59.269 --> 00:13:01.269
at heart. So there you are. But there are some times,

249
00:13:01.830 --> 00:13:04.090
and I do agree with that, about culture does spill

250
00:13:04.149 --> 00:13:08.470
over sometimes. But I mean, that, you know, this still is,

251
00:13:08.629 --> 00:13:10.409
I mean, you know, with the Jeep thing. But anyway,

252
00:13:10.450 --> 00:13:12.269
we're not here to judge Mr. George, are we? So

253
00:13:12.309 --> 00:13:16.289
that's fine. But, you know, did your parents speak openly

254
00:13:16.360 --> 00:13:19.539
about racism? Or did you understand more, do you think,

255
00:13:19.620 --> 00:13:21.080
as you grew older yourself?

256
00:13:21.120 --> 00:13:23.899
Well, you know what, you know, racism kind of works

257
00:13:24.019 --> 00:13:27.139
on both sides. Mom and dad would speak about white

258
00:13:27.179 --> 00:13:30.940
people sometimes. They had, you know, black people had superstitions.

259
00:13:31.000 --> 00:13:33.620
And I don't hear so much of that now, but

260
00:13:33.659 --> 00:13:35.879
when I was coming up, Black people used to talk

261
00:13:35.899 --> 00:13:37.779
about white people, too. They would say something about, like,

262
00:13:37.860 --> 00:13:40.399
you know, when their hair get wet, they smell like dogs,

263
00:13:40.820 --> 00:13:45.610
you know. And, you know, we had our little things, too,

264
00:13:45.669 --> 00:13:47.769
you know. And so that's what I was saying to

265
00:13:47.789 --> 00:13:49.269
people in my church the other day. We were talking

266
00:13:49.289 --> 00:13:50.629
about white people and black people. I said, you know,

267
00:13:50.669 --> 00:13:52.149
we have to be careful we don't become the thing

268
00:13:52.169 --> 00:13:56.509
that we hate because there are white people who have

269
00:13:56.570 --> 00:13:58.500
the same kind of heart and spirit that we do.

270
00:13:59.169 --> 00:14:01.120
And we have to make sure that we recognize them

271
00:14:01.159 --> 00:14:03.360
and not put everybody in the same basket, you know.

272
00:14:04.399 --> 00:14:05.419
I know. You know what I mean.

273
00:14:05.899 --> 00:14:06.220
I do.

274
00:14:06.299 --> 00:14:07.019
I do. Yeah.

275
00:14:07.080 --> 00:14:09.419
Human nature is really tough like that, right? I mean,

276
00:14:10.179 --> 00:14:14.580
you know, I think you're right there. It's just so

277
00:14:14.620 --> 00:14:17.299
funny because, you know, whilst, you know, I'm a white

278
00:14:17.340 --> 00:14:19.559
guy and I'm in England and you'd think that everything

279
00:14:19.580 --> 00:14:22.139
would be great. My mother was Spanish or is Spanish.

280
00:14:22.539 --> 00:14:22.679
Yeah.

281
00:14:22.720 --> 00:14:25.820
And she came over to here and married my English dad.

282
00:14:26.440 --> 00:14:30.259
And oh my gosh, the racism that was going on then. Right.

283
00:14:30.519 --> 00:14:32.639
Even though she was white, right? You know.

284
00:14:32.659 --> 00:14:33.090
Yeah.

285
00:14:34.110 --> 00:14:36.269
I don't know. She was Spanish, first of all. Food

286
00:14:36.320 --> 00:14:38.460
was strange. The neighbors used to complain. She used to

287
00:14:38.679 --> 00:14:42.360
get hassled. And much the same with my wife, whose

288
00:14:42.419 --> 00:14:45.759
father was Italian. Same thing, right? So it's not, you know.

289
00:14:45.820 --> 00:14:48.610
I know the English, I read that the English, they

290
00:14:48.639 --> 00:14:52.149
call the English people, the Italian people dark. They didn't

291
00:14:52.210 --> 00:14:54.129
care too much for the fact that they were so

292
00:14:54.149 --> 00:14:57.600
dark and some of the French also. But, yeah. You know,

293
00:14:57.700 --> 00:15:00.250
it's everywhere you go, and it comes out in different forms.

294
00:15:00.259 --> 00:15:02.590
This was the thing between the English people and the

295
00:15:02.710 --> 00:15:05.389
Irish people all these years, all the centuries ago. I'm

296
00:15:05.409 --> 00:15:08.490
so glad when they settled that finally. But I don't

297
00:15:08.529 --> 00:15:13.169
know what it is about people that makes us think.

298
00:15:13.379 --> 00:15:16.179
Everybody's got two eyes, two arms, and everything, bleed, blood,

299
00:15:16.240 --> 00:15:19.980
and everything. Why we have to be that way? Why

300
00:15:20.059 --> 00:15:24.700
we can't just accept each other? Mm-hmm. You're black, I'm white.

301
00:15:24.940 --> 00:15:26.379
I mean, you know what I'm saying? Why can't we

302
00:15:26.399 --> 00:15:31.059
just be like that? Yeah. You know what I'm saying?

303
00:15:31.080 --> 00:15:33.100
Yeah, we should be able to put the world right now,

304
00:15:33.139 --> 00:15:36.200
shouldn't we, really? But, I mean, yeah, I know. But

305
00:15:37.090 --> 00:15:39.740
the trouble is, it goes back all the way, doesn't it?

306
00:15:39.789 --> 00:15:42.570
I mean, like, thousands upon thousands of years.

307
00:15:42.830 --> 00:15:47.909
Back to Bible days, even. You know, my earliest recollection

308
00:15:47.970 --> 00:15:51.539
of a skin color in the Bible is when... When

309
00:15:51.620 --> 00:15:56.470
Moses married a woman called Keturah, and some of the guys,

310
00:15:56.590 --> 00:16:00.289
they didn't like it. She was dark-skinned and what have you. So,

311
00:16:00.370 --> 00:16:03.750
you know, it's lasted a long, long time. And I

312
00:16:03.789 --> 00:16:07.309
don't know. When we all get to heaven, it's going

313
00:16:07.330 --> 00:16:07.990
to be fine.

314
00:16:09.230 --> 00:16:11.549
Well, yeah, exactly. You know, that's what we've got to

315
00:16:11.610 --> 00:16:14.889
hope for, isn't it? But, you know, I did not

316
00:16:14.929 --> 00:16:19.980
know that about Moses, actually. So that's interesting to me. Oh, interesting.

317
00:16:20.019 --> 00:16:20.360
Interesting.

318
00:16:20.779 --> 00:16:23.320
Well, so really what you've been doing, I think, with

319
00:16:23.340 --> 00:16:25.259
the book as well is, you know, when Mama tells

320
00:16:25.279 --> 00:16:28.559
you about the quarters, the quarters, the Saturday night frolics.

321
00:16:28.659 --> 00:16:33.429
Oh, yeah. Well, that was where they lived. They went

322
00:16:33.769 --> 00:16:35.889
to work once for a man named Mr. Solomon. He

323
00:16:35.909 --> 00:16:38.970
had some little cabins, little houses that he put his

324
00:16:39.029 --> 00:16:41.769
workers in. They put you up in some workers, but

325
00:16:41.809 --> 00:16:43.490
that's all you had, a roof over your head because

326
00:16:43.509 --> 00:16:45.669
you didn't get anything else because we didn't have running

327
00:16:45.710 --> 00:16:49.110
water back in those days. And most people's walls were

328
00:16:49.169 --> 00:16:52.259
covered with the newspaper. And maybe that's where I learned

329
00:16:52.279 --> 00:16:54.669
to read the New Year's papers and everything like that.

330
00:16:55.110 --> 00:16:58.690
But in the quarters, they put it all together. I

331
00:16:59.110 --> 00:17:02.250
guess that's what you call. Well, I guess those were

332
00:17:02.269 --> 00:17:05.130
some of your first American ghettos when you come to

333
00:17:05.170 --> 00:17:06.900
think about it, because ghettos is where a lot of

334
00:17:06.910 --> 00:17:12.220
people of the same kind live. Anyhow, in the quarters,

335
00:17:12.839 --> 00:17:15.849
I thought. I thought that they were talking about money

336
00:17:15.869 --> 00:17:17.509
when I used to see people talking about the quarters.

337
00:17:17.849 --> 00:17:21.289
But mama told me, no, gal, it's not who it is.

338
00:17:21.970 --> 00:17:25.009
Everybody lived in little shacks. Everybody lived in little shacks.

339
00:17:27.630 --> 00:17:29.529
It was like a little, you know, if you really

340
00:17:29.549 --> 00:17:33.440
wanted to compare, probably was like slave quarters, but only

341
00:17:33.480 --> 00:17:34.000
we were free.

342
00:17:34.869 --> 00:17:36.950
You know what I'm saying? No, I do, yeah.

343
00:17:37.130 --> 00:17:37.630
No, exactly.

344
00:17:37.769 --> 00:17:40.509
So, yeah, like little tin huts kind of thing.

345
00:17:41.099 --> 00:17:43.450
There you go. Like the tin huts that they have

346
00:17:43.579 --> 00:17:49.579
over in Africa, Swahili, where they live, like, so sad. Yeah.

347
00:17:49.619 --> 00:17:53.880
Amazing. They used to do that over here as well, actually, with...

348
00:17:54.000 --> 00:17:56.940
They had this big thing about people living in London

349
00:17:57.119 --> 00:18:00.599
or in big towns, in big cities, in the old days,

350
00:18:00.700 --> 00:18:04.089
with the bad pollution and everything. During the summer... they

351
00:18:04.140 --> 00:18:06.849
used to go out and work on the farms. And

352
00:18:07.009 --> 00:18:09.730
it was like generations would go every year and they

353
00:18:09.750 --> 00:18:13.349
would basically live in places like that too. But working,

354
00:18:13.549 --> 00:18:16.670
picking hops and all that stuff. So, I mean, it's

355
00:18:16.690 --> 00:18:18.609
not quite the same, I guess, but I mean, you know, nearly.

356
00:18:19.109 --> 00:18:20.970
Yeah, they used to have here in Florida, they had

357
00:18:21.029 --> 00:18:23.829
migrant workers. You don't hear too much about that nowadays,

358
00:18:24.170 --> 00:18:26.809
where migrant workers would come down during the season to

359
00:18:26.849 --> 00:18:29.890
pick peaches and watermelons and oranges and stuff like that.

360
00:18:30.559 --> 00:18:32.420
But I don't know whatever happened to that. I guess

361
00:18:32.480 --> 00:18:35.460
it kind of died out because people got better educated

362
00:18:35.480 --> 00:18:38.029
and there were more jobs available or something. I don't know.

363
00:18:38.069 --> 00:18:42.890
Maybe the industrial age came along and there was less

364
00:18:42.950 --> 00:18:45.509
work for people to do like that. I don't know

365
00:18:45.529 --> 00:18:47.900
if they do it in the Midwest and America still.

366
00:18:47.960 --> 00:18:49.259
I don't know. Yeah.

367
00:18:49.339 --> 00:18:52.200
Well, that's definitely what happened to the Londoners who couldn't

368
00:18:52.220 --> 00:18:54.839
go to, you know, to go and pick the hops because,

369
00:18:54.940 --> 00:18:58.240
as you say, it was automated and that was it really. Yeah. So,

370
00:18:58.279 --> 00:19:01.059
I mean, do you realize, though, that what you're writing

371
00:19:01.200 --> 00:19:04.009
isn't just preserving stories about your family and your parents?

372
00:19:04.029 --> 00:19:07.349
I mean, you're preserving a whole community and a whole

373
00:19:07.410 --> 00:19:09.829
way of life. I mean, was that in any way

374
00:19:09.910 --> 00:19:11.029
the intention?

375
00:19:11.049 --> 00:19:13.309
No, I did not. When I was writing this book,

376
00:19:13.430 --> 00:19:18.109
I did not realize that. And it wasn't until I... People...

377
00:19:17.750 --> 00:19:22.130
A gentleman wrote me a beautiful essay about my book

378
00:19:22.250 --> 00:19:25.000
the other day, a couple of weeks ago. And some

379
00:19:25.019 --> 00:19:27.319
of the things that he mentioned, I was shocked because

380
00:19:27.460 --> 00:19:29.279
I wish I had written them. You know, the things

381
00:19:29.299 --> 00:19:32.420
that he said the book brought out. I didn't realize

382
00:19:32.920 --> 00:19:36.000
when I talked about the frolics and I talked about

383
00:19:36.019 --> 00:19:39.849
how Mom and Daddy met and Mr. Bush, my hero,

384
00:19:39.930 --> 00:19:44.190
when I was a child. I didn't realize that. I

385
00:19:44.250 --> 00:19:49.630
really didn't realize I was doing a cultural thing. I

386
00:19:49.690 --> 00:19:54.779
knew I was talking about us, my people, but it

387
00:19:55.500 --> 00:19:57.599
didn't dawn on me. I was just trying to tell

388
00:19:57.660 --> 00:20:02.109
a story of my parents and me and my cousin. But,

389
00:20:02.529 --> 00:20:06.930
you know, when I look back, black people really did

390
00:20:07.009 --> 00:20:10.880
have a whole set of values. And they had culture.

391
00:20:10.950 --> 00:20:12.700
Once when I was in a college class, a man

392
00:20:12.759 --> 00:20:15.539
did say to me, a teacher said to me, and

393
00:20:15.599 --> 00:20:18.140
I disagreed with him because I had looked up culture

394
00:20:18.160 --> 00:20:21.539
by that time and I knew what it meant, is

395
00:20:21.579 --> 00:20:23.960
that black people didn't have any culture. And I said,

396
00:20:24.000 --> 00:20:28.480
that isn't right. That isn't right because anything a lot

397
00:20:28.500 --> 00:20:31.420
of people do, and they all do the same way.

398
00:20:31.460 --> 00:20:37.150
For example, all black people know that when you're talking

399
00:20:37.170 --> 00:20:42.470
to an old person like me, who's 91, you do not,

400
00:20:42.509 --> 00:20:44.819
if you're a young kid, you do not look them

401
00:20:44.900 --> 00:20:48.359
dead in their eyes because that is regarded as an

402
00:20:48.519 --> 00:20:52.480
insult that you are being sassy, you know? And if

403
00:20:52.519 --> 00:20:55.119
you did that to my parents when you were coming in,

404
00:20:55.160 --> 00:20:56.640
you were going to get a strapping from daddy because

405
00:20:56.660 --> 00:20:59.089
you don't stand up and look him dead in the

406
00:20:59.210 --> 00:21:03.009
eye like that. When we went to, when we had integrations,

407
00:21:04.000 --> 00:21:06.380
The black children didn't look at the white teachers. They

408
00:21:06.440 --> 00:21:08.670
kept their eyes down the way they had been taught

409
00:21:08.690 --> 00:21:12.029
when they were talking to their elders. And the white

410
00:21:12.069 --> 00:21:16.029
people thought that it meant that the black children were

411
00:21:16.109 --> 00:21:20.769
shifty-eyed and thieves because of the way they kept their

412
00:21:20.869 --> 00:21:23.910
eyes downcast. Because white people have taught one thing about

413
00:21:24.230 --> 00:21:26.650
looking people dead in the eye, and black children have

414
00:21:26.670 --> 00:21:28.759
taught another thing about looking grown people dead in the eye.

415
00:21:28.930 --> 00:21:31.319
You understand what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah. Oh, my gosh.

416
00:21:31.359 --> 00:21:33.859
Differences in culture. Differences in culture.

417
00:21:34.529 --> 00:21:37.430
That's a really good point. Yeah, that wouldn't have helped anything,

418
00:21:37.470 --> 00:21:43.900
would it? No. Oh, God. Honestly. No, no.

419
00:21:43.960 --> 00:21:47.980
Because the white people are taught that you stand up

420
00:21:48.059 --> 00:21:49.680
and you look somebody dead in the eye and say

421
00:21:49.700 --> 00:21:53.339
what you mean. Black children are taught that you do

422
00:21:53.380 --> 00:21:55.539
not look grown people in the eye because they regard

423
00:21:55.559 --> 00:21:59.019
it as an insult. And you can hear ladies now saying, honey,

424
00:21:59.039 --> 00:22:01.900
she would look at me dead in my eyes. Yeah.

425
00:22:02.000 --> 00:22:04.880
And that's something that would that would, you know, it's

426
00:22:04.940 --> 00:22:09.509
an insult. But anyway, we have to make those cultural bridges,

427
00:22:10.450 --> 00:22:11.049
you know.

428
00:22:11.069 --> 00:22:14.089
Yeah. But that is really interesting, isn't it? Because that

429
00:22:14.109 --> 00:22:17.450
must have caused so many problems. Just one thing like that.

430
00:22:18.630 --> 00:22:19.970
We think that's simple.

431
00:22:20.130 --> 00:22:20.289
Right.

432
00:22:20.349 --> 00:22:22.849
But no, I get it. Oh, my gosh.

433
00:22:22.869 --> 00:22:23.049
Right.

434
00:22:23.410 --> 00:22:24.430
Sorry, I keep saying it on my phone.

435
00:22:24.450 --> 00:22:27.089
You form an opinion of a person, you know, by that,

436
00:22:27.109 --> 00:22:30.190
and you think the little black children could understand why

437
00:22:30.230 --> 00:22:32.289
the white teachers were so mean to them and thought

438
00:22:32.309 --> 00:22:35.569
they were stealing all the time. They were just doing

439
00:22:35.609 --> 00:22:38.170
what they had been taught at home, you know?

440
00:22:38.190 --> 00:22:41.609
They weren't being shifty. Yeah, you're right.

441
00:22:41.730 --> 00:22:43.130
There you go. There you go.

442
00:22:43.869 --> 00:22:44.970
Wow. Okay, so.

443
00:22:45.289 --> 00:22:49.410
There are whole worlds, whole worlds of difference, and people

444
00:22:49.450 --> 00:22:51.849
just have to make allowances for them, I hope.

445
00:22:53.130 --> 00:22:55.960
Yeah, you're right. Gosh.

446
00:22:56.119 --> 00:22:59.900
All of us are much better today because the groups

447
00:22:59.960 --> 00:23:03.059
have advanced in terms of understanding each other. That's a

448
00:23:03.079 --> 00:23:04.549
good thing, you know.

449
00:23:04.920 --> 00:23:10.750
Yeah, thank goodness for that, I think. You know, this

450
00:23:10.990 --> 00:23:13.230
comes to me to the next thing I wanted to

451
00:23:13.309 --> 00:23:16.049
ask you about, really, which was about Mama. We'll get

452
00:23:16.089 --> 00:23:18.359
to your cousin soon, don't worry. But I wanted to

453
00:23:18.380 --> 00:23:21.609
know about Mama who, you know, She was a very

454
00:23:21.670 --> 00:23:25.309
smart person, right? She knew all sorts of stuff.

455
00:23:25.529 --> 00:23:27.549
My mother was very smart. People came to her from

456
00:23:27.589 --> 00:23:32.460
miles around because she made little medicine concoctions, and she

457
00:23:32.500 --> 00:23:36.240
would rub them, and she was like, she would say

458
00:23:36.259 --> 00:23:40.440
to people, she was like an African medicine man, I guess,

459
00:23:40.500 --> 00:23:42.880
in a way, because she would say to people who

460
00:23:42.920 --> 00:23:45.859
came to her, they had aches or pains, and she

461
00:23:45.900 --> 00:23:47.900
would say, you believe I can help you? You believe

462
00:23:47.960 --> 00:23:49.700
I can help you? And they would say, yeah, and

463
00:23:49.740 --> 00:23:51.789
she would rub them, And they would go away swearing

464
00:23:51.809 --> 00:23:55.569
that they felt better. She could do that. She mixed medicines.

465
00:23:55.950 --> 00:24:00.990
And every winter, us children, my sister Bernice, my brother Jack,

466
00:24:01.049 --> 00:24:03.349
and me, she would make us lay down on the

467
00:24:03.390 --> 00:24:05.470
bed and she would put hot tallow on our chest

468
00:24:05.730 --> 00:24:08.990
because the cold winter was coming. And that would be

469
00:24:09.099 --> 00:24:13.259
a preventive measure that she would take. She could cook.

470
00:24:13.539 --> 00:24:15.579
And like I say, she could chop wood like a man.

471
00:24:16.180 --> 00:24:18.220
She would go in the water with the boots on

472
00:24:18.359 --> 00:24:21.049
and stuff like that. And she could definitely make good

473
00:24:21.109 --> 00:24:24.210
potato pie. My goodness. And then she would sit down

474
00:24:24.269 --> 00:24:28.609
sometime and tell me how to be. She didn't know

475
00:24:28.630 --> 00:24:29.990
it was being a leader, but she would tell me

476
00:24:30.410 --> 00:24:32.329
I had to sit with my legs crossed. You don't

477
00:24:32.369 --> 00:24:34.269
sit with your legs all spread wide open if you're

478
00:24:34.289 --> 00:24:36.569
a young woman. She didn't use those words, but that's

479
00:24:36.609 --> 00:24:39.289
what she meant. And also, I want you to know

480
00:24:39.369 --> 00:24:41.930
my mother was the first person who ever introduced me

481
00:24:41.970 --> 00:24:45.180
to poetry. I don't know where she heard these lines

482
00:24:45.339 --> 00:24:48.259
or where she got them, but she said them to me.

483
00:24:49.599 --> 00:24:53.829
The four lines are, bows on my shoulder, slippers on

484
00:24:53.880 --> 00:24:57.829
my feet. I am my mama's blue-eyed darling. Don't you

485
00:24:57.869 --> 00:25:02.849
think I'm sweet? Now, she didn't have no blue-eyed darling.

486
00:25:02.869 --> 00:25:05.230
She had a brown-eyed darling. But I'm just saying, she

487
00:25:05.250 --> 00:25:08.250
was the first person. Evidently, something about those four lines

488
00:25:08.309 --> 00:25:10.660
appealed to her. because she passed it on to me,

489
00:25:10.660 --> 00:25:12.519
you know, I'm 91 years old and I have not

490
00:25:12.539 --> 00:25:15.980
forgotten that yet. That was the first four lines of

491
00:25:16.009 --> 00:25:16.829
poetry I ever learned.

492
00:25:18.009 --> 00:25:21.750
Oh, so, so she's, she's worldly wise, obviously because of,

493
00:25:21.970 --> 00:25:25.089
you know, because that's just the way it was. Um,

494
00:25:25.410 --> 00:25:27.430
I suppose that's all we can really say. No, not

495
00:25:27.670 --> 00:25:30.390
an education of sorts, but an education within the community

496
00:25:30.410 --> 00:25:31.250
and of life.

497
00:25:31.329 --> 00:25:31.529
Right.

498
00:25:32.250 --> 00:25:34.390
Um, do you know the amount of people that I

499
00:25:34.430 --> 00:25:37.019
talked to who, uh, I was talking to another author

500
00:25:37.039 --> 00:25:39.880
last week who has written a book about all of this,

501
00:25:40.000 --> 00:25:42.079
you know, the plants and the remedies and the seasons.

502
00:25:42.099 --> 00:25:44.220
Yes, yes, yes. She was good at that. Oh, yes.

503
00:25:45.140 --> 00:25:46.039
Yeah.

504
00:25:46.440 --> 00:25:50.099
Yeah. She'd go out in the woods and she'd cut

505
00:25:50.160 --> 00:25:53.000
down something called, oh, Lord, what is that thing? It

506
00:25:53.019 --> 00:25:55.400
was called green. It was good. There were two. One was,

507
00:25:55.880 --> 00:25:58.119
I didn't like one. One was good. It was some

508
00:25:58.140 --> 00:26:00.609
kind of green plant. She'd make tea and we'd drink it.

509
00:26:01.279 --> 00:26:04.720
And it'd be good for cold. She could also make homebrew.

510
00:26:05.309 --> 00:26:10.700
which is an alcoholic beverage, you know. Also, my mother

511
00:26:10.779 --> 00:26:14.019
did not play around when it came to her romantic

512
00:26:14.079 --> 00:26:17.460
life and her husband, because sometimes Daddy, who was young,51300:26:17.519 --> 00:26:19.660



and I think he had kind of had a little51400:26:19.789 --> 00:26:21.869



eye for the ladies, nothing that would make him desert51500:26:21.890 --> 00:26:23.769



his family or anything like that. But every now and51600:26:23.789 --> 00:26:25.710



then on Friday, he would kind of get lost and51700:26:27.269 --> 00:26:30.009



be getting home a little late. And so my mother51800:26:30.049 --> 00:26:33.920



would take me and her trusty switchblade in her hand,51900:26:34.640 --> 00:26:37.339



I would go behind her, and we would go until52000:26:37.359 --> 00:26:40.200



we found Daddy's car, and my mother would use the52100:26:40.240 --> 00:26:47.319



occasion to slash Daddy's tires. And so when he might52200:26:47.359 --> 00:26:50.569



have a little problem getting home, but he eventually came home.52300:26:51.420 --> 00:26:53.619



And until, I don't know if you read the book52400:26:53.640 --> 00:26:55.490



or not, but until one time he did come home,52500:26:55.529 --> 00:26:57.309



so we went looking for him. We found him to Mr.52600:26:57.349 --> 00:27:00.589



Mason Price's place. Mr. Mason Price ran a moonshine place,52700:27:01.410 --> 00:27:05.430



and there were loose ladies hanging around there. And Mama52800:27:05.470 --> 00:27:07.920



suspected that Daddy was in one of those rooms, and52900:27:07.960 --> 00:27:10.839



she went and kicked the door down. She said, Willie,53000:27:10.880 --> 00:27:11.500



come out of there.53100:27:12.619 --> 00:27:13.579



And was Willie in there?53200:27:14.380 --> 00:27:15.319



Yes, Willie was in there.53300:27:15.380 --> 00:27:16.720



He was in there.53400:27:16.839 --> 00:27:19.900



Looking sheepish. Willie was in there looking sheepish. She said,53500:27:19.960 --> 00:27:26.980



all right, Willie, let's go. Daddy meekly got up, put53600:27:27.059 --> 00:27:30.380



on his shoes. and came out the door. He didn't53700:27:30.420 --> 00:27:32.099



say nothing on the way home, but I could tell53800:27:32.180 --> 00:27:34.329



he was very glad Mama had come to get him.53900:27:34.339 --> 00:27:35.539



He probably didn't know how to get out of the54000:27:35.579 --> 00:27:37.960



situation he was in, but I think he was kind54100:27:38.000 --> 00:27:41.349



of glad he was here. He never repeated that particular incident.54200:27:42.609 --> 00:27:46.190



Funny that.54300:27:46.869 --> 00:27:48.430



He didn't want to get rid of his Anna, honey.54400:27:48.470 --> 00:27:51.170



He loved his Anna. Yes, he did. The day Mama died,54500:27:51.210 --> 00:27:55.599



when Mama died, Daddy was sitting outside. She died, but54600:27:55.640 --> 00:27:57.990



she's like, she was a little bit older than he was.54700:27:58.150 --> 00:27:59.890



I think she was like, she lived to be, she54800:27:59.910 --> 00:28:03.730



was about 98. Wow. No, she couldn't have been that old.54900:28:03.829 --> 00:28:05.779



I think she was born in 1918, 98. She was,55000:28:05.809 --> 00:28:08.859



she was in her eighties. And she was down here55100:28:08.880 --> 00:28:10.859



with me because I, I got, I brought them to55200:28:10.920 --> 00:28:15.279



live with me. And we buried mama that weekend. And55300:28:15.480 --> 00:28:18.200



during the week before we buried her, daddy was sitting55400:28:18.240 --> 00:28:21.019



outside and a friend of mine was here. And my son,55500:28:21.420 --> 00:28:25.589



Linnell was with me. And, um, All of a sudden,55600:28:25.609 --> 00:28:28.089



we saw Daddy come in like a raging storm, and55700:28:28.130 --> 00:28:31.559



he was crying, Anna, Anna, you really love me. I55800:28:31.579 --> 00:28:34.339



can't stand it. I just can't. And my father was crying.55900:28:34.420 --> 00:28:41.869



I never saw him cry before. They were together 47 years. Yes,56000:28:41.920 --> 00:28:45.670



they were. And they loved each other. They loved each other.56100:28:46.150 --> 00:28:46.730



We knew that.56200:28:47.289 --> 00:28:49.369



Yeah, well, you know, I mean, that's the good thing,56300:28:49.390 --> 00:28:52.150



that at least you knew that, right? And you've taken56400:28:52.170 --> 00:28:56.109



that forward with you. That's really sweet. Yes, I was56500:28:56.130 --> 00:28:57.690



going to stop myself from saying it, but no, it56600:28:57.869 --> 00:28:59.529



is a sweet thing, isn't it? When you know that56700:28:59.589 --> 00:29:03.029



your parents love each other like that. So let's move.56800:29:03.190 --> 00:29:07.230



Let's move on then from, say, family and upbringing and56900:29:07.269 --> 00:29:11.569



that culture, because you becoming a reader, you know, somebody57000:29:11.609 --> 00:29:14.819



who absorbs books and was really into this sort of thing.57100:29:16.059 --> 00:29:19.000



you know, that's taking your family in a new direction,57200:29:19.059 --> 00:29:22.009



isn't it? And I think that happened maybe quite a lot,57300:29:22.690 --> 00:29:26.569



you know, obviously with your age, not just saying your age, but,57400:29:26.609 --> 00:29:28.410



you know, people of your age.57500:29:29.470 --> 00:29:32.339



The thing about it is that I was, my imagination57600:29:32.359 --> 00:29:37.740



was always great. I always pretended I was someplace else.57700:29:39.000 --> 00:29:43.079



I used to wonder, used to wonder something about two57800:29:43.140 --> 00:29:45.539



nickels and a dime. Why did a dime convert into57900:29:45.559 --> 00:29:49.480



two nickels? But anyway, I would wonder what the other58000:29:49.500 --> 00:29:51.539



people were doing when I was not with them. I58100:29:51.579 --> 00:29:54.400



wondered if they really existed when I wasn't there. That58200:29:54.440 --> 00:29:56.079



was a thought that bothered me for a long time.58300:29:56.119 --> 00:29:58.299



Even to my adult years, I used to wonder about that,58400:29:58.319 --> 00:30:01.880



and sometimes I still do. Mama did not care too58500:30:01.920 --> 00:30:05.180



much for books, but Daddy was always saying to us,58600:30:06.339 --> 00:30:09.420



go to school and be somebody. Learn how to be somebody.58700:30:09.779 --> 00:30:14.000



He was in favor of education all the way. He58800:30:14.039 --> 00:30:18.190



wanted us to go to school. Mama was, she loved us.58900:30:18.309 --> 00:30:22.809



She loved us like crazy, but she was not that particular.59000:30:23.650 --> 00:30:26.210



She especially disdained the fact that I used to like59100:30:26.269 --> 00:30:29.650



to read. But I think I think in the end59200:30:29.730 --> 00:30:31.890



she was kind of glad that I was what you59300:30:31.910 --> 00:30:35.250



call a smart kid. But she was not for reading.59400:30:36.430 --> 00:30:39.390



I think most of her knowledge had come from like59500:30:39.890 --> 00:30:43.509



what we call mother wit. Because her mother Susie had59600:30:43.549 --> 00:30:46.130



been raised in a place called Chester, Florida, which is59700:30:46.349 --> 00:30:49.259



like a rural area. And mama had grown up out59800:30:49.319 --> 00:30:52.279



there too. And she learned a lot about remedies and59900:30:53.359 --> 00:30:53.980



stuff like that.60000:30:55.190 --> 00:30:57.410



And living, really, I think, you know, just being able60100:30:57.450 --> 00:31:00.529



to live and exist and have a good life rather than,60200:31:01.089 --> 00:31:04.390



you know, maybe what you've done is enhance your life,60300:31:04.430 --> 00:31:07.670



you know, and sort of moved on as opposed to just,60400:31:07.910 --> 00:31:08.269



you know, existing.60500:31:08.309 --> 00:31:10.920



Mama lived more like close to the earth, you know,60600:31:10.940 --> 00:31:14.700



she was like, the rhythms of the earth, the moon,60700:31:14.720 --> 00:31:16.859



she knew when to plant stuff, but not to plant60800:31:16.880 --> 00:31:19.700



and all like that. She was more like a naturalist,60900:31:20.259 --> 00:31:25.220



like that. Daddy was more like, uptown, educated. He had61000:31:25.240 --> 00:31:27.819



been to the sixth grade, and he did do a lot.61100:31:27.839 --> 00:31:30.819



He read. He read. He read the newspaper all the time.61200:31:31.519 --> 00:31:32.660



He'd tell Mama what was in it.61300:31:32.660 --> 00:31:34.599



We used to get a paper called, do you remember,61400:31:34.700 --> 00:31:39.940



you ever heard about the Pittsburgh Courier? The Pittsburgh Courier61500:31:40.900 --> 00:31:43.539



was a paper predominantly put out for blacks.61600:31:43.880 --> 00:31:44.640



You ever heard about it?61700:31:45.200 --> 00:31:47.849



I think you may have done, but refresh our memories.61800:31:48.150 --> 00:31:50.450



They took that paper, and Daddy always read it, and61900:31:50.490 --> 00:31:52.920



he would read stuff to Mama. She was not all62000:31:52.940 --> 00:31:56.799



that great by reading. But reading was always a part62100:31:56.859 --> 00:32:01.589



of my life. And it helped my imagination. One thing62200:32:01.650 --> 00:32:04.170



I used to do all the time was pretend that62300:32:04.250 --> 00:32:07.650



I was standing in front of the mirror. Because Betty62400:32:07.670 --> 00:32:12.130



and I listened to the radio. Cecil B. DeMille, Dinah Shore, Eddie,62500:32:12.190 --> 00:32:15.910



what was it, Eddie Cantor, who's his wife, Ida, and62600:32:15.950 --> 00:32:19.359



Bob Hope. Thanks for the memories. I love that. Love that.62700:32:22.869 --> 00:32:26.670



And World War II, we listened to the news, H.V.62800:32:26.690 --> 00:32:30.609



Cottonborn and all of them. So I used to stand62900:32:30.650 --> 00:32:33.039



in front of the mirror and pretend that I was63000:32:33.230 --> 00:32:35.440



a famous singer because that's what I wanted to be.63100:32:35.500 --> 00:32:38.440



I wanted to be a star, radio, stage, and screen.63200:32:39.119 --> 00:32:41.279



And I would sing and I would pretend in my63300:32:41.319 --> 00:32:45.289



imagination that I had on a low-cut black dress. And63400:32:45.349 --> 00:32:47.589



I would come down the stairs. I guess I saw63500:32:47.609 --> 00:32:50.410



a movie or something when I came down the stairs.63600:32:50.940 --> 00:32:52.839



And I would pretend that I would come down the63700:32:52.859 --> 00:32:55.500



stairs and I'd circulate among my patrons and say hello63800:32:55.539 --> 00:32:58.039



to a gentleman like you. So glad seeing you tonight.63900:32:58.519 --> 00:33:01.980



And all that kind of stuff. My imagination, I lived64000:33:02.069 --> 00:33:06.549



in it. I lived in it. And we lived in64100:33:06.589 --> 00:33:12.130



a place called Amelia City. My friend Richard called it64200:33:12.210 --> 00:33:16.029



Goat Alley because it was like a country. I used64300:33:16.069 --> 00:33:17.900



to sit there in that little house. Mom and Daddy64400:33:18.000 --> 00:33:22.369



went to run a moonshine joint. And we moved from uptown,64500:33:23.299 --> 00:33:24.799



which wasn't saying much because our....64600:33:28.700 --> 00:33:33.160



Is it frozen there? Sorry, Desi.64700:33:33.180 --> 00:33:39.390



That's all right. Okay, right.64800:33:39.430 --> 00:33:41.950



So we got to... You moved uptown, but that wasn't64900:33:41.990 --> 00:33:44.549



saying much because... Yeah, yeah.65000:33:45.849 --> 00:33:49.869



Because our town was a small town. But anyway, we... Oh, shucks,65100:33:49.950 --> 00:33:52.599



I forgot what I was going to say now. Bless65200:33:52.630 --> 00:33:55.680



my soul. And like I said, being 91 is not easy.65300:33:56.380 --> 00:34:00.819



What were we talking about? What led into that? I65400:34:01.119 --> 00:34:03.359



don't know. Anyway. It's okay.65500:34:03.400 --> 00:34:06.769



Yeah, exactly. But that's not a problem because obviously now65600:34:06.809 --> 00:34:08.949



your story reaches, you know, Robert Battle, right?65700:34:08.969 --> 00:34:09.829



Okay.65800:34:10.150 --> 00:34:12.570



So when you look at the world that we've just65900:34:12.590 --> 00:34:17.809



been talking about, these, you know, resourceful, determined people, And everything,66000:34:17.849 --> 00:34:20.639



you know, one generation handed to the next, all that66100:34:20.679 --> 00:34:21.239



sort of stuff.66200:34:21.380 --> 00:34:23.519



Yeah, yeah. Okay.66300:34:23.599 --> 00:34:25.500



What of that inheritance do you see in the man66400:34:25.800 --> 00:34:26.679



Robert became then?66500:34:27.679 --> 00:34:31.159



Okay. Well, I have to tell you that Robert, my66600:34:31.199 --> 00:34:37.010



cousin had Robert and she virtually gave him to mom66700:34:37.030 --> 00:34:39.670



and daddy. And my sister Bernice and I were down66800:34:39.690 --> 00:34:41.730



here working at Dade County School System. I was a66900:34:41.769 --> 00:34:45.090



teacher and Bernice was a paraprofessional teacher. And mom and67000:34:45.110 --> 00:34:46.570



daddy called us on the phone and said, we got67100:34:46.590 --> 00:34:48.829



us a little baby boy. And I was so mad67200:34:48.849 --> 00:34:50.110



I didn't know what to do because I knew that67300:34:50.150 --> 00:34:52.210



little baby boy was going to fall to me. They67400:34:52.230 --> 00:34:55.269



were 70 and 80. They were up there in age.67500:34:55.909 --> 00:35:00.840



But they kept him. They kept him. And then when67600:35:00.900 --> 00:35:04.960



mama passed away, I had them come down here and67700:35:04.980 --> 00:35:07.199



live with me because mama had several strokes and what67800:35:07.239 --> 00:35:10.460



have you. And so he brought the baby, Robert, too.67900:35:10.639 --> 00:35:15.889



And he, mama died. So we couldn't, Daddy was still living,68000:35:15.909 --> 00:35:17.610



so we couldn't take Robert and send him back to68100:35:17.650 --> 00:35:19.690



his family because he didn't know anything about those people.68200:35:20.010 --> 00:35:21.349



And he was like one and a half when he68300:35:21.389 --> 00:35:24.460



came down here to be with us. So we kept him.68400:35:24.500 --> 00:35:27.199



And then Daddy passed away after some years, after Robert68500:35:27.219 --> 00:35:29.679



got into elementary school. Daddy used to walk Robert to68600:35:29.719 --> 00:35:33.219



elementary school every morning around, it's not far from where68700:35:33.260 --> 00:35:36.110



we live. And he would tell him, always go to school,68800:35:36.349 --> 00:35:40.570



be somebody, learn something, so and so. Yeah. And he68900:35:40.610 --> 00:35:42.690



drilled that into Robert's head, and he loved him. He69000:35:42.710 --> 00:35:44.590



was very kind to Robert. He was much nicer to69100:35:44.630 --> 00:35:46.929



Robert than he was to me when I was growing up.69200:35:47.489 --> 00:35:50.530



But I guess that's the way it is, right? But69300:35:50.570 --> 00:35:55.420



Daddy was really Robert's uncle. He was the child of69400:35:55.480 --> 00:35:59.559



his niece. And so he grew up. So the things69500:35:59.599 --> 00:36:03.420



that Daddy drilled into Robert, they are still with him.69600:36:04.210 --> 00:36:08.110



You can wake him up now and he could tell69700:36:08.150 --> 00:36:11.719



you a thing of my father. One day my father69800:36:11.780 --> 00:36:13.579



used to say he could look at a person and69900:36:13.639 --> 00:36:15.019



look at the shape of his head and listen to70000:36:15.039 --> 00:36:16.239



him talk for a few minutes and he'd tell you70100:36:16.280 --> 00:36:18.679



who he is and where he come from. My father70200:36:18.719 --> 00:36:23.559



was a very good reader of a person's character. And70300:36:23.599 --> 00:36:27.769



he passed that on to Robert. And a lot of70400:36:27.809 --> 00:36:30.530



things that are values in our family, we have that now.70500:36:30.550 --> 00:36:34.030



Robert cares for family. He especially looks out for the70600:36:34.090 --> 00:36:38.429



ladies who are in his family. And he never forgets70700:36:38.610 --> 00:36:40.949



that it's God who raised him up and it's God70800:36:40.989 --> 00:36:44.849



who can take him down. And he always remembers his father.70900:36:44.869 --> 00:36:46.429



He tells me right now, a lot of times he71000:36:46.469 --> 00:36:48.579



goes on stage before he starts to speak, he thinks71100:36:48.659 --> 00:36:52.119



about what daddy said, what daddy taught him. And I71200:36:52.579 --> 00:36:54.059



see daddy in him all the time.71300:36:56.500 --> 00:36:58.559



This is really, you know, it shows a lot about71400:36:58.599 --> 00:37:01.559



your family, you know, and... And the way that you've71500:37:01.619 --> 00:37:04.699



all sort of gotten on, you know, because obviously if71600:37:04.969 --> 00:37:07.949



Robert was, what, your cousin then, I guess, yeah?71700:37:07.989 --> 00:37:09.409



Yeah, my second cousin.71800:37:09.449 --> 00:37:10.889



His mother is my first cousin.71900:37:10.929 --> 00:37:13.170



His mother is my first cousin. Yes.72000:37:13.989 --> 00:37:16.489



So he's had a special journey.72100:37:16.510 --> 00:37:22.150



I mean, what's happened? The way Robert came into our72200:37:22.210 --> 00:37:26.389



family is that my cousin, who was a teenager, had Robert.72300:37:28.210 --> 00:37:30.730



And one day, my mother and father went to see72400:37:30.849 --> 00:37:35.230



his sister, Robert's grandmother. And my mother spied Robert coming72500:37:35.289 --> 00:37:37.760



down the stairs. It was cold. It was the wintertime,72600:37:37.840 --> 00:37:41.940



coming down the stairs. No shirt on, a wet diaper,72700:37:42.019 --> 00:37:44.579



and a snotty nose. And he was crippled, and he72800:37:44.599 --> 00:37:46.699



was trying to come down those stairs. And she said72900:37:46.719 --> 00:37:48.980



to my cousin, gal, you don't want this baby. Give73000:37:49.000 --> 00:37:50.900



him to me. You don't want this boy. Give him73100:37:50.940 --> 00:37:53.599



to me. And she said, all right, Diana, you can73200:37:53.639 --> 00:37:57.909



have him. Because, you know, times were hard. She lived73300:37:57.929 --> 00:37:59.670



with her mom and her daddy, and she was a73400:37:59.730 --> 00:38:02.550



young teenager trying to make it in the world and73500:38:02.590 --> 00:38:04.769



didn't know a whole lot about raising a baby and whatnot.73600:38:04.789 --> 00:38:09.300



So she told mama she could have Robert. So she73700:38:09.340 --> 00:38:12.219



gathered up Robert's little things, and they took him home.73800:38:13.820 --> 00:38:16.960



And mama made the decision, daddy had nothing to do73900:38:16.980 --> 00:38:20.570



with it. Daddy was standing on the edge and Anna,74000:38:20.590 --> 00:38:23.969



you know what you're doing? Yeah, I'm taking this boy home.74100:38:24.010 --> 00:38:27.050



So they took that boy home. And he never went74200:38:27.119 --> 00:38:29.179



back to Jacksonville when he was a little kid. His74300:38:29.219 --> 00:38:33.599



mother never came for him. She never called to see74400:38:33.659 --> 00:38:39.239



how he was doing. So he became us, our part74500:38:39.260 --> 00:38:43.199



of our family. He became us. And then Mom and Daddy,74600:38:43.239 --> 00:38:45.500



see how God works these things out? Mom and Daddy74700:38:45.539 --> 00:38:49.130



saw the boy was bow-legged. Now, Or an educated nut.74800:38:49.170 --> 00:38:50.789



You know what they did? They took him to Brewster74900:38:50.829 --> 00:38:53.929



Hospital in Jacksonville, where the doctors looked at his legs75000:38:54.949 --> 00:38:56.989



and put his legs in iron braces. There was a75100:38:57.010 --> 00:39:00.300



lot of that going around back in those days. And75200:39:00.900 --> 00:39:03.159



they got the legs straightened out. He wore those heavy75300:39:03.300 --> 00:39:05.420



iron braces. I always will think that the reason that75400:39:05.440 --> 00:39:07.159



he fell in love with the dance is because he75500:39:07.199 --> 00:39:09.460



had to wear those heavy iron braces on his legs.75600:39:09.519 --> 00:39:10.969



And when we would go home, my sister and I75700:39:11.010 --> 00:39:13.510



would drive home to Fernandina from Miami for the weekend.75800:39:14.130 --> 00:39:15.730



He'd be so happy we'd get there, and we'd take75900:39:15.769 --> 00:39:18.389



the braces off and everything, and he'd move around. He76000:39:18.429 --> 00:39:21.639



felt so good. He'd move around, and I think that's76100:39:21.679 --> 00:39:23.820



how he fell in love with movement. I really do.76200:39:25.050 --> 00:39:28.260



uh but we were fortunate it's how god works these76300:39:28.300 --> 00:39:32.780



things out robert um had so much talent as a76400:39:32.840 --> 00:39:35.760



kid and i played the piano for the church and76500:39:35.780 --> 00:39:38.539



stuff like that and robert has an ear for music76600:39:39.460 --> 00:39:41.829



and and and at this church he and daddy and76700:39:41.929 --> 00:39:44.110



i would go and he would sit by daddy and76800:39:44.170 --> 00:39:46.630



he would hear the preacher preach And he'd come home76900:39:46.889 --> 00:39:48.719



when he got to be like in junior high school.77000:39:48.739 --> 00:39:51.579



He'd come home and he'd preach the sermon. Well, like third, fourth,77100:39:51.639 --> 00:39:54.800



fifth grade. He'd preach the same sermon to us, every word.77200:39:55.860 --> 00:40:02.329



And he saw his work as a choreographer and being77300:40:02.369 --> 00:40:05.630



in the dance hall, the artistic director. He saw that77400:40:05.769 --> 00:40:09.530



as a calling. And he and I, he and I77500:40:09.570 --> 00:40:12.429



just love the arts. First song I ever taught him77600:40:12.469 --> 00:40:15.500



on the piano was That's entertainment because I noticed that77700:40:15.539 --> 00:40:19.079



he had an ear for music. And sometimes we'd all77800:40:19.099 --> 00:40:21.159



get in the house and we'd sing. We'd gather around77900:40:21.179 --> 00:40:23.539



the piano and I'd play it. Everybody would sing. And78000:40:23.559 --> 00:40:30.389



Daddy's favorite song was, Must Jesus bear the cross alone?78100:40:30.929 --> 00:40:32.869



We all do it. We do it now. When we78200:40:32.909 --> 00:40:35.210



all get together, we do it. We imitate Daddy.78300:40:36.489 --> 00:40:40.070



Even now. Oh, that's wonderful. That's really good. So what78400:40:40.090 --> 00:40:42.670



happened there? I mean, he's now, you've mentioned dance, you've78500:40:42.690 --> 00:40:48.099



mentioned an artistic director, but this was something quite amazing78600:40:48.159 --> 00:40:51.679



that he's done all this. Apart from, as you were saying,78700:40:51.719 --> 00:40:56.320



being crippled with bow-legged, you know, whatever that was at78800:40:56.340 --> 00:40:56.719



the time.78900:40:56.739 --> 00:40:58.949



Yeah, it's a disease. It's a disease. I can't think79000:40:58.969 --> 00:41:00.369



of it. It starts with an L, but I can't79100:41:00.409 --> 00:41:04.809



think of the name of it. Yeah. Well, you mean79200:41:04.849 --> 00:41:10.960



what happened? He went to high school, Northwestern, where he79300:41:11.000 --> 00:41:12.900



was interested in the arts. He had to fight the79400:41:13.260 --> 00:41:16.059



slings and arrows of the neighborhood boys, of course, who79500:41:16.079 --> 00:41:18.360



called him a punk or sissy or what have you,79600:41:18.400 --> 00:41:22.000



because he was in the arts, was interested in the arts.79700:41:22.420 --> 00:41:25.670



And he said to them, that's okay. You call me79800:41:25.730 --> 00:41:28.829



all you want. But years from now, when I'm famous79900:41:28.989 --> 00:41:33.289



and a famous dancer, you'll still be on the corner80000:41:33.349 --> 00:41:36.269



selling drugs. He would say that to them. Also, he80100:41:36.309 --> 00:41:38.889



was very practical. He took the care and a hammer80200:41:38.969 --> 00:41:44.449



in his school bag in case he was overcome. But80300:41:45.710 --> 00:41:53.260



he took up karate. He was like a self, let80400:41:53.280 --> 00:41:56.280



me see. You didn't have to tell him you ought80500:41:56.300 --> 00:41:58.500



to practice, you ought to take dance lessons, you ought80600:41:58.519 --> 00:42:00.860



to do this. He would do it. He looked for80700:42:00.900 --> 00:42:05.849



ways to improve himself. Everything he came across, he used.80800:42:05.869 --> 00:42:08.369



He put that into his bag of tools that he80900:42:08.409 --> 00:42:10.210



was using even now, today.81000:42:11.309 --> 00:42:13.630



Very disciplined, I think, is the thing, isn't it?81100:42:14.010 --> 00:42:17.550



Focused. Yeah, that's it, focused. He used to sit in81200:42:17.610 --> 00:42:23.440



the avocado tree and imagine his future. When he was81300:42:23.460 --> 00:42:25.159



a little boy, he wrote on a piece of tin,81400:42:25.260 --> 00:42:28.420



Robert Battle, Dance Boss, and he had stars all around him.81500:42:28.480 --> 00:42:29.719



He drew that on a piece of tin.81600:42:30.880 --> 00:42:37.860



It just shows you. It's amazing. Yeah. Well, Desi, we81700:42:37.880 --> 00:42:39.780



could obviously talk for days, not just hours.81800:42:39.820 --> 00:42:42.300



But days. We've been going by an hour, right? I81900:42:42.320 --> 00:42:42.800



think so.82000:42:42.820 --> 00:42:44.219



I thought it.82100:42:44.119 --> 00:42:46.019



Was going to be 30 minutes, but we've been going82200:42:46.039 --> 00:42:48.389



by an hour. You're easy to talk to. Oh, good.82300:42:48.469 --> 00:42:51.570



I'm glad. I'm glad. But I think we do need82400:42:51.590 --> 00:42:54.829



to be wrapping things up, not least because my dog82500:42:54.889 --> 00:42:57.409



is going crazy because my wife's just come home. And82600:42:57.510 --> 00:42:58.150



he's going to say that.82700:42:58.900 --> 00:42:59.239



Yeah.82800:42:59.480 --> 00:43:02.460



So anyway, what I need to know, though, really, or82900:43:02.480 --> 00:43:07.960



what we need to know is, you know, you guys, Desi,83000:43:08.699 --> 00:43:11.320



Mama and Daddy, you know, all of you, you lived83100:43:11.340 --> 00:43:13.360



in a world that's enormously different from the one that83200:43:13.440 --> 00:43:17.380



Robert's generation inherited. Because obviously, just to reiterate, Robert's much83300:43:17.440 --> 00:43:18.320



younger than you, right?83400:43:19.400 --> 00:43:22.550



Yes, he's 54 now. I'm 91. Yeah. He turned 5483500:43:22.550 --> 00:43:28.500



the other day. Uh-huh. Oh, right. And you've put all 28, 1972,83600:43:28.500 --> 00:43:29.079



he was born.83700:43:30.219 --> 00:43:30.780



So there you are.83800:43:30.969 --> 00:43:31.179



Right.83900:43:31.199 --> 00:43:34.429



So that's he was born in a completely different era, actually,84000:43:34.510 --> 00:43:35.750



not even a different decade.84100:43:35.989 --> 00:43:36.690



Right. Yes.84200:43:36.730 --> 00:43:40.869



A completely different era, which is amazing considering that it's84300:43:40.889 --> 00:43:44.650



all within the 20th century. And now you've put their84400:43:44.690 --> 00:43:45.710



voices into a book.84500:43:46.030 --> 00:43:46.409



OK.84600:43:46.510 --> 00:43:50.130



And you've you've handed down everything, you know, that you84700:43:50.190 --> 00:43:53.670



were handed down. But what do you hope? What were84800:43:53.710 --> 00:43:56.489



you most hope? will still be present in your family84900:43:56.699 --> 00:44:00.960



another hundred years from now, though, in terms of being85000:44:01.000 --> 00:44:05.260



remembered or admired, because you do admire your parents, right?85100:44:05.280 --> 00:44:05.840



That's obvious.85200:44:06.780 --> 00:44:10.780



Yes. I want them to feel the way about me85300:44:11.000 --> 00:44:14.099



and about my sister, the way I feel about my parents,85400:44:15.239 --> 00:44:19.510



that we gave them a great foundation. We taught them,85500:44:19.710 --> 00:44:21.969



even though they may have strayed, we taught them right85600:44:22.170 --> 00:44:27.750



from wrong. We taught them about God. We passed our85700:44:27.809 --> 00:44:31.550



faith in God along. Church was a part of our lives,85800:44:31.610 --> 00:44:35.070



and it's part of their lives, even though they may85900:44:35.110 --> 00:44:37.340



wander off. But they do wander back, and they do86000:44:37.380 --> 00:44:42.119



have respect for God and the church. So we want86100:44:42.159 --> 00:44:45.760



them to understand that you want to get anywhere, you've86200:44:46.280 --> 00:44:49.539



got to persevere. You've got to stick to it. Nobody's86300:44:49.579 --> 00:44:52.199



going to hand you anything. You take the talent that86400:44:52.260 --> 00:44:55.849



God gave you, And you make the best of it.86500:44:56.650 --> 00:44:59.630



You give your best to him because he gave you86600:44:59.690 --> 00:45:01.739



his best is the way we look at it.86700:45:03.130 --> 00:45:05.269



Don't waste your talents, right? I think that's the thing,86800:45:05.329 --> 00:45:05.710



isn't it?86900:45:05.730 --> 00:45:06.130



That's right.87000:45:06.550 --> 00:45:09.110



Yeah. So what would Mama say then if she could87100:45:09.150 --> 00:45:09.500



see you?87200:45:12.469 --> 00:45:16.070



Mama would say, you done all right, girl. You took87300:45:16.110 --> 00:45:18.869



care of Robert and you took care of your sister.87400:45:18.989 --> 00:45:21.070



That's what she would say. You took care of the87500:45:21.110 --> 00:45:22.929



rest of them. That's what she would say.87600:45:23.969 --> 00:45:26.230



And what would she say about you talking about your87700:45:26.269 --> 00:45:27.250



book today then, do you think?87800:45:28.929 --> 00:45:30.469



She would say, you don't have to say all that.87900:45:30.849 --> 00:45:32.909



You don't have to tell all that. That's what she88000:45:32.929 --> 00:45:33.369



would say.88100:45:33.989 --> 00:45:36.389



Yeah, that's family stuff, right? Something like that.88200:45:36.449 --> 00:45:38.530



Yeah, she would say that. She would say that. You88300:45:38.550 --> 00:45:42.360



don't have to tell that. Daddy would say, well, I88400:45:42.389 --> 00:45:44.880



guess it's all right. You do no harm.88500:45:46.880 --> 00:45:50.559



Wonderful, wonderful. Well, listen, Desi Williams, oh my gosh, thank88600:45:50.579 --> 00:45:53.699



you so much for joining me on Author Conversations. Honestly,88700:45:54.860 --> 00:45:57.800



I've loved hearing your stories. And I think that, you know,88800:45:58.239 --> 00:46:01.300



your book is, just to remind everyone, is called His88900:46:01.360 --> 00:46:04.809



Wonders to Perform, Mama, Daddy and My Cousin Robert Battle.89000:46:05.210 --> 00:46:08.369



I mean, you know, honestly, it's been wonderful talking to you.89100:46:09.309 --> 00:46:12.550



What can I say? We could go on for days, basically.89200:46:12.650 --> 00:46:14.210



I think you read the book. I want you to89300:46:14.250 --> 00:46:15.670



get the book and read the part where I ran89400:46:15.690 --> 00:46:17.750



away from home and I was hidden on the pipeline.89500:46:17.769 --> 00:46:19.309



I was scared the rattlesnakes were going to bite me.89600:46:20.449 --> 00:46:21.730



No, not more rattlesnakes.89700:46:21.869 --> 00:46:22.150



Absolutely.89800:46:23.000 --> 00:46:28.400



Yeah, exactly. That's the part two, right? You'll have to89900:46:28.440 --> 00:46:30.920



write another one. But listen, I mean, is there anything90000:46:30.980 --> 00:46:33.500



else that you want to mention that I haven't asked90100:46:33.579 --> 00:46:35.039



or we haven't discussed so far?90200:46:36.719 --> 00:46:39.000



Well, no, I just would like to say to parents90300:46:39.019 --> 00:46:42.590



who have children, find out what your children love to do.90400:46:43.610 --> 00:46:45.929



Find out what their children are good at. If they90500:46:45.969 --> 00:46:48.730



love to do it, encourage them in it because it90600:46:48.750 --> 00:46:53.570



may turn out to be their life's work. Encourage them90700:46:53.610 --> 00:46:56.599



to always honor God. If they do, he'll honor them.90800:46:57.519 --> 00:47:00.300



That's what I would pass along. Brilliant.90900:47:00.460 --> 00:47:02.840



Well, thank you very much, Desi. We really appreciate that. So,91000:47:03.159 --> 00:47:05.969



Desi Williams, thank you. And remember, the book is called,91100:47:06.320 --> 00:47:07.710



go on, you can tell us what the book's called91200:47:07.730 --> 00:47:08.090



this time.91300:47:08.929 --> 00:47:13.130



His Wonders to Perform, Mama, Daddy and My Cousin, Robert Battle.91400:47:14.269 --> 00:47:16.230



You say that much better than I do. So there91500:47:16.260 --> 00:47:16.550



you go.91600:47:17.050 --> 00:47:17.739



Bless your heart.91700:47:18.469 --> 00:47:20.320



So thank you very much for joining me, Bessie. It's91800:47:20.340 --> 00:47:22.880



been wonderful. And hopefully, Desi, I.91900:47:22.820 --> 00:47:25.920



Called you Bessie. And if you call me Bessie one92000:47:25.940 --> 00:47:28.960



more time, I'm coming right through this telephone to get you.92100:47:29.559 --> 00:47:31.960



I would deserve it as well, I think. No, Desi,92200:47:32.059 --> 00:47:35.010



I'm so sorry about that. Thank you again, Desi, for92300:47:35.130 --> 00:47:38.050



joining us and being with us. It's wonderful. Lovely to92400:47:38.090 --> 00:47:38.409



meet you.92500:47:39.110 --> 00:47:39.449



All right.92600:47:39.469 --> 00:47:42.409



So take care. Have a good time. And yeah, basically,92700:47:42.429 --> 00:47:43.789



see you again sometime, hopefully.92800:47:44.230 --> 00:47:47.059



OK, hopefully, yes. All right. Bye bye. Take care. Take care.92900:47:47.139 --> 00:47:47.440



Bye bye.93000:47:52.610 --> 00:47:55.900



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