He Became an Author at 63 — “It’s Never Too Late” | Ray Denyer

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Hi and welcome to author conversations. As usual, I'm Chris Dabbs and today we've got

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something a little bit different to talk about. So let me ask you a question. What happens

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when the least likely night in the kingdom becomes its most celebrated hero? Well that sounds

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interesting to me. Well, Ray Denyer is the author of: Algernon Breadstick, The Hapless Knight, introduces

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us to a man who has dreamed of nighthood all his life, but fails his tournament. Oh,

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that's not a good start, is it? Gets lost on the way to his adventures, even worse, and

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often seems more interested in apples and ale. Actually, that sounds like me, than glory.

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So I don't know where we're going to go from there, but you know what? Algenon is supposed

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weaknesses become his greatest strengths. So instead of simply slaying the creatures

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that he meets, which is kind of what you'd expect, right? He listens to them. He befriends

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them and basically goes down the pub with them and discovers that the monsters are often misunderstood.

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I'm not sure about the pub bit, but you know, anyway, so Ray wrote his first book later

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in life after years of making up stories for his family. Today we'll talk about beginning

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at 63. The real inspiration behind Algenon and why kindness, persistence and comedy may

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make a better hero than brute force, which sounds like a plan to me. So Ray, Danielle,

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welcome to all the conversations. How are you? And I feel very welcomed. Good. That's

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all right. Excellent. Well, let's get to dump jump straight into it then. Yeah, Ray,

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you say that you'd always dreamed of becoming an author, right? But you know, life gets in

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the way of all the things that we want to do. So I mean, you know, what finally made this

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the moment to begin. That's an easy question. 14 grandchildren. How many 14 14 grandchildren?

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14 grandchildren. I've used to make up stories for my siblings in that time between going to

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bed and falling asleep. I used to make up stories to make them laugh and sometimes just to

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bore them to sleep. Then I started making up stories for my children. I've always been

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good at making up stories. And then we grandchildren and everybody been on that me. You've got to

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write it down. You've got to write it down. So I started writing it down. And as they say,

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the rest is history. Well, I mean, you know, it's quite, it's not just the fact that you've

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just written something, right? It's actually, you know, interesting and it's fun at the

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same time, right? So, you know, that's the point. So, hmm, so what, they though, was there

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particular sort of like, I don't know, conversation or moment or family reaction other than everyone

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saying, come on, granddad, write these down. You know, that pushed you into telling stories

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or writing this particular one. But I do always had the name, the character, for years.

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And then when I put it together with nights, it sounded better. Sir, Adjunam worked brilliantly.

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So I resurrected the name as it were and started to write. And it, it, it just flowed that was,

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there was no real thinking about it. I'd nick bits from other stories I'd made up. And

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just took it. And then it seemed to take on a life of its own. And now Adjunam's the character.

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And I've just finished writing the second one, the follow up.

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Right, well, that's OK then. So we're going to look forward to hearing it going, so seeing and yet

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reading and hearing all that. Great, all right. So you mentioned obviously that you started writing

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later in life because of all this, you know, work stuff and whatever. I mean, 14 grandadjunam,

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that's going to affect me for the rest of the day, I think. But anyway, how do you think that's

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starting later, you know, with more experience under your belt, perhaps, or more time because you weren't

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working and things. Do you think that that gave you a sort of like confidence or maybe some different

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perspectives that you might not have had when you were young? It gave me an overall picture of the

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world as I see it. And, well, without going into too much detail, I wanted to show people that

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you shouldn't give up on your dreams. With, with me, I left it very late, but it was never too late.

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And it's the same I've fed that into Aljanon. When he failed, he went to the pub and had an

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ale and thought, this is it. And the barman said to him, well, don't give up. You've always wanted

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to be a knight. Go on a quest. Aljanon's lesser good idea was a quest. And after non-benia quest

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myself, after going to the pub, maybe, but we won't go there. And he says, why don't you go and kill

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the Loch Ness Monster? It's big enough to attract the attention of the king. And it will make you an

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instant hero. You'll be knighted straight away. And that's good because he didn't know where to find

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the Loch Ness Monster. He went to Wales to begin with, got lost. Then found himself in Scotland.

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And he's sitting on the bank and the Loch Ness Monster comes up and says, hello, Aljanon. And he said,

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how do you know my name? Is it Chris? I'm a mythical creature and I know everything. Then

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he says, I also know you've come to slay me. And Aljanon said, well, yeah, that might have been a good

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idea last night. But you know, sitting here, it's not a good idea, is it? And the Loch Ness Monster says,

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I think we could mutually benefit each other here. I need to disappear from public life.

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And you need to be a knight. I lost the tooth yesterday. If I go and find it and give it to you,

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I can disappear. And you can tell the king you slayed me, but I was too heavy to bring back. So you

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brought the tooth as proof. And as the story goes on, he goes back to the king, gives him the tooth.

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And he ignites him. But this is just the beginning of these problems because from there,

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he kills Aljanon. You can be my mythical creature slayer. I've got a dragon. And he goes to the dragon and he says,

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hello, Aljanon. And Aljanon said, oh, don't tell me you're a mythical creature and you know everything.

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And he said, no, actually, my cousin, the Loch Ness Monster told me he was coming. But that's

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not the beginning of these problems because the Vikings come. And I don't want to spoil it. But

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it's not the beginning of the night. Yeah, sounds it actually. It sounds, I mean, yeah,

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the mythical creature knowing that he was coming. I love that little twist there. With the other one,

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you think mythical creature is just going to say, I don't know, but no, I like that one, but it's

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cousin. Excellent. So I, you know, I guess as you're writing, you're kind of improvising it,

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right? Obviously, it's coming out. But were there particular parts in other stories, as you said,

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that you've done that kind of, you know, that your grandchildren probably laughed at or something

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like that. And you thought, right, I'm definitely making sure that Aljan does that sort of stuff.

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Yeah, names, characters, pictures of characters that if they laughed, I took that as a positive

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and I ended it in. But what I do is I write part of the story. Then I'll read it back. And if it

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reads right, I carry on. Sometimes I do overthink it and go back three or four times, but I usually end

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up with the original story anyway. So I've decided that maybe that's not such a good idea.

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Well, yeah, is that take it fresh, right? So as it comes out, then, you know, you can always tidy it

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up later on, quite you through editing and whatnot. But yeah, the time you've tidy up the grandma.

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Yeah, exactly. That's the easy part. So, okay, let's go back to Aljan on the right. And he's

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next. I mean, must have it. I did laugh. Aljan on Breadstick. Okay, what is that about? Where does the

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Breadstick part come from? Well, if you can keep your secret and there's nobody listening.

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Well, I hope there is. But yeah, I have Aljan on and we sat down to an Italian meal

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with the grandchildren and they said, "Do you want a Breadstick?" And then the wheel started turning and I

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said, "No, but Aljan might want a Breadstick. Maybe we should call him Sir Aljan on Breadstick." And

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they fell about. So that was good enough for me. He was then Aljan on Breadstick. And Sir Aljan on

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Mount after all his hard work. Yes, he deserves it. Yeah, and a bit of shenanigans, but I mean,

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I did lots of travelling, right? So then, fair enough. But okay, so that's quite funny.

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A bit because I think that you've got some sort of fancy first name, Aljan on. And then you've got

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Breadstick coming up afterwards. So that kind of tells us, doesn't it? It gives us a story

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or immediately as soon as you read it. You know that this isn't so lancelot or you know, someone really

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sort of, you know, that's going to be like that. Was that a plan or was it? Yeah, I think we should all

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laugh at ourselves if we take ourselves too seriously. And because it doesn't work, or because it

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shouldn't work and it does work, that made it even funnier for them. They would talk about it for

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dames and every time they come up to see me, they go, "And how is Aljan on Breadstick?" So they love

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that part. It sticks. Yeah, I have to have it approved by the grandchildren first.

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Is it that you, she was? Yeah, well, yeah. See the approval there.

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Yes, I think you have to, their my target audience anyway.

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Well, exactly. And you know, young adults and things, it's really important, I reckon.

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Okay, so let's find out a bit more about Aljan then. So he has trained for 12 years, right?

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But that hasn't happened, has it? Because he failed to score a single point in his tournament,

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or tournament, such as they. But I mean, you know, why do you want to begin to such a story with such

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a spectacular failure, really? Because I think all success is grounded in failure. It's the way we learn,

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it's the way we grow, it's the way we develop. So I wanted to show that he was just your every day

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Mr Bridstick. And the fact that he doesn't give up and he keeps going and he can see

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in his mind that, you know, everything's going to be okay, don't worry about it. And sometimes it's not.

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But if you don't give up and keep tweaking, you're going to get there anyway.

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I think that's really, that's, yeah, that's a big lesson to try and give over, isn't it, to

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yeah, to, I mean, a lot of people even, you know, in adulthood, they don't get it, you know, they just

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think that they, that they failed and that's that. But no, you'd learn from it. Yeah, right. I totally agree

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with that. And also they, um, people get out in the morning and they've got all the odds of

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stacked against them. And it just shows that it don't matter, you know, you could be threatened by

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a mythical creature, but you'll come through. Just got to have the face it. Yeah. Or

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we're financially, you know, because yeah, well, then you wouldn't know much about it. So, you know,

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fair enough. And so I mean, all right. So if you think about that then that first setback, you know,

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that he's sort of like come through, you know, and you're asking people to sort of like support him

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through through the beginning and all of that sort of stuff. I mean, how much of that, if you like,

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do you kind of use that as a, in other words, don't give up? How do you use that as a, a kind of,

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like, this is the messaging story. But, you know, what I'm going to explain why all the way through,

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if you see what I mean, so that you can build on that message. Is, was that a plan? Or was it, you

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know, don't do it just sort of. Yeah, it was. I have to say it was a plan. It makes me look intelligent.

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But no, it developed. Um, I don't know where it works, but Elginon became a person. He, my,

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my whole family, no impersonally. And I feel that, um, we all make mistakes.

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We're not perfect. But perseverance and an ultimate goal, not a plan because it's going to have

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to be tweaked all the time, a basic outline and an ultimate goal. And we'll get there every single

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time. Like this is really nice. I like the city stories. Yeah, this is great. I mean, you know,

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if you're reading the book and you're in that, and you know, Elginon's world kind of thing,

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do you think that the people who, you know, other people in the book, do they realize, right, that he's

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really a bit of a, I don't know, or they think not realize, but they think that he's a bit of a

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buffoon or something like that. I mean, you know, he's always getting it wrong. Yeah, that's a lot of

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stuff, right? Yeah, begin with. Right. And then they realize that maybe he's got something. We

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don't know what it is. I mean, the Kings see right through him after, after the Vikings, but

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we won't go there because it was all a story. But the King knew that whatever challenge he set him,

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he would deal with it in his own special way. And because he could communicate with mythical creatures,

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that was also a bonus for the King. And he could deal with all his mythical creature problems.

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Now, that's a good point, right? So for readers and everything else, and unless you think it's a bit,

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it is too much of a spoiler. I mean, is he the only person that can talk to mythical creatures in

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that universe kind of thing? Well, the mythical creatures can allow people, and they're allowing him,

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because they see a friend, not an enemy or, you know, somebody wants to capture them, make them

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fun of them. He's on their level, which doesn't say a lot for Elginon, but he's on their level. And they

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believe they believe. So, you know, he develops friendship with mythical creatures, and because they know

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everything, they tell each other, sort of what is in different countries or different areas,

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the mythical creatures in that area. And now he's coming, and they know that they can trust him.

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That's kind of nice actually. Or he, and, or he, they're a bit hungry, yes, true.

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So, okay, so for your point of view, you see Elginon as like a real person, right, as your family does.

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Yes. So, what do you think of him now there? I mean, because if he's a real person, you're not like

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making him into the best person possible, because we all have our own faults, right? So, do you see him

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as as brave? Well, yeah, what's that? Otherwise, I think it's an SOS call. Basically, I filled it.

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None of us are perfect. I've made some real big mistakes, and I've come from, and I can relate to him.

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So, yeah, we've become buddies, and as a result, I've sent him all over the world, in the second book,

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is on his crusade. Crusade? That's amazing. Is that a conventional crusade? Do you know, like the one

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that we know it, or the ones we know about the from history, or is it some sort of... No, it just

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escorts some pilgrims to the holy lamb, it becomes a pilgrimage through the people he meets, and the

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people he helps. Well, that'd be interesting. I will talk about that next time, Ben. Yes. Okay, now,

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that's five there. Now, the book tells readers, right, that dreams, obviously, both they can come true.

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If we're all brave enough, I'm not really to give up, I think, that's the main truth. Yeah,

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and learn from that. I mean, you mentioned that you've made mistakes, and obviously, if you've got

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14 grandchildren, you've got children that you've also seen, you know, do that sort of thing.

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So, I mean, what would you say to anybody then, who thinks that they've left it too late to become

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an author, or to become whatever, or to do whatever? Nobody could have left it later than me. I am now

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69, and I'm talking to you. It's my son, never too late. I feel that, well, we've still got breath,

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we've still got a chance. And basically, own up, you know, say that I made a mistake, I'm going to put

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it right. And then when people see that you start putting your mistakes right, and I'm drawing on

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myself here, once people see that you're willing to put your mistakes right, and you're willing to

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grow from them, anything's possible. And hopefully you get a second chance. But you've got to try in the

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first place, I guess. Oh, yes. Yeah, never give up. Never stop believing. Oh, it's a song, don't I?

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Just keep adapting to the, to the, to the, you know, you can't change yesterday, but tomorrow,

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it's not even written yet. We just take it as it comes, keep your goal in mind, and have small wins.

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Elton, a great one for small wins, and then at the end of the week, you can add more up and have a

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good win. Yeah, it's a really good point, isn't it? Exactly. It's not all nothing all the time. Is it,

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is it just about making sure that that happens? Yeah, I get it. Yeah, with life in general, it's just a

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slow steady progression. And that's from Canon's point. And we, better than we were yesterday,

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as the main thing. And throughout the book, his confidence grows. So then he'll be making better

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decisions and have been more courage. So his wins will in fact get bigger. And that's the same with

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us all, you know, it's all good. No, exactly. I have to ask you as well, actually, thinking about

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Alton and the way that he, the he is, I mean, apples, ale, right, taking the wrong turns, going to

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wrong place. And he tends to sleep under tables quite often, as well, actually. So, you know, how

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deliberately did you sort of build those trips to the pub or in or whatever it is, you know, into that

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to try and make it sort of the comedy? And was that really based on your own experiences, right?

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Yeah, I believe in repetitive joke. When I research nights, it seemed that they had a

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dire of ale and apples. And it just grew from now. From the moment he failed, he went to the pub.

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He spoke to the landlord and that's where it progressed from. And I think even today we go to the

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we go to the pub, we talk to the landlord and sometimes he gives us silly ideas and sometimes he

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gives us a quest. So yeah, I think people can relate to Alton on because yes, he knows he's a failure,

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but he's working on it and is what they call a work in progress.

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Yeah, exactly, which is what we should all really think about now. Yeah, no, it's all right.

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Okay, well, I can't believe it. We're running out of time. You know, it just always the way, but I

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love listening to you. I can see why your family loves listening to your stories of work.

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No, you know, I mean, I think this is the thing. You've got Alton on. You know, he befriends the monsters

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instead of slaying them. You know, so the Loch Ness Monster saves his life, basically. And the man

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who gained to stay with him in stay, you know, it becomes his friend. So this is like my penultimate

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question then. Why was kindness more interesting to you than combat because you could have written one

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way, you just go down and like slaves, every medical creature around, couldn't you? Yeah, but then

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isn't isn't that where the world's going wrong now? Maybe if we all sat down and spoke honestly,

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we'd all be a little bit more like Algernon Breadstick. Um, conflict does never, there's no winners with conflict.

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There's always, there has to be a loser, but if you can become friends, you've got two winners.

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You can, you know, can on each other, which will make you stronger and make all those goals come a

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little bit closer. You're very wise, right? Now, yeah, that's a good point there. I'm sick.

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Stee Nothin. I should be. Well, I think I know a few, but anyway, um, so as you're a 16,

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no idea what has becoming like a published author in your 16 made possible unbelievable, especially

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things like today, because then I put them, I put my social media and everybody says, oh, you

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must be doing something right. And I think it's just pride because I've got 14 grandchildren. I'm 69.

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And I want to leave a legacy. And I don't think there's a better legacy than Algernon Breadstick

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Is that true? When late Ronin life when the children need it, they could go, hang on, what would

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Alton on do? And if they can relate to that, it's like I'm still giving them advice.

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Putting them on a straight and narrow. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I'll read, Daniel, thank you so much for

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all of that. No, thank you. The pleasure was all mine. Thank you, Ray. I mean, seriously, I really enjoyed

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my program tube. And, you know, I am going to be thinking about it on breadstick and all of these things.

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And taking those positive life lessons more, more actually, because yeah, we always have a little

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bit of a problem, but learn from it. And next time that problem, hopefully, will, you know, not

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not not reacquire because you've changed something or you've doing something differently, right?

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Yeah, I think the basic point of the story is that when we're facing something for the first time,

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it can be daunting. But if you're facing it, you think, hang on, I had something similar to this before,

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that way, didn't work. Maybe I should try a new way. And we develop because once we've made the same

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mistake twice, we're not going to make it third. Or we might not get the opportunity to make a third.

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No, hopefully not. Oh, hopefully you won't need to. Yeah, exactly. Well, listen, Ray Daniel,

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thank you very much for joining me. So the pleasure was almost. Thank you.

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And brilliant. Well, I tell you what, have you got a website or you've got something that people

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can contact you on? Yeah, Raydenya.com Easy peasy, right? There we go. And then we'll have a social media.

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So my grandchildren tell me. And so you can't have a go at anyone else about spending too long with

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your phone. Okay, well, you heard it here first, people, www.raydenyerauthor.com and also

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Algernon will be back in the future. Hopefully, right? Yes, indeed.

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It will be good. And it's been lovely to meet you. Thanks very much. Thank you very much for the

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opportunity. Thank you very much. Thank you. Bye.

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If you enjoyed this conversation, you can watch more author conversations here.

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