Medicine Creek Claim: Frontier Women, Homesteading & the Dakota Frontier | CK Van Dam

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Hello and welcome to author conversations. Today, undrained by historical

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fiction author, C.K. Van Dam, whose latest novel is medicine pre-clave on the

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Dakota Frontier. C.K. Van Dam writes stories inspired by the strong women who

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help shape America's frontier history. Her novels explore the realities of

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homesteading, survival, war and resilience, doing some of the most

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turbulent periods in American history. It's fascinating still. Now medicine

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pre-claim follows sisters Charlotte and Lizzie Ward during the civil war

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era as they attempt to build new lives with the Dakota Frontier. At the heart of

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the story is Charlotte, a remarkable young woman who disguises herself as a man

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joins the Union Army and develing medical skills or trying to protect her younger

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brother during the chaos of the war. The novel combines family, drama, frontier

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life and real historical events including the divided loyalties inside

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Missouri during the civil war and the brutal realities of bad or fluid medicine.

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So after that intro C.K. welcome to author conversations. It's great to have you.

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Thank you very much. It's good to be here. Oh no no problem at all. Excellent. Well,

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let me ask you like a really obvious question, Festival. What inspired you to

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write medicine pre-claim? Medicine pre-claim is the third book in my

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on the Dakota Frontier series and the first book was inspired by a statistic that

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kind of roused through this whole series that while 12% of homesteaders were

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women 42% of women homesteaders proved their claims. They had to be on single,

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widowed or divorced. They had to be head of household according to the homestead

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after 1862. History made sure here. So 42% of women homesteaders proved their

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claims. 37% of male homesteaders proved their claims. They could be married.

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That to me said, ah, there's a story there. So far I have written four stories

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based on that inspiration. Medicine pre-claim was inspired by but not based on

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Land of the Burt Thigh by Edith Amits. She and her sister came from they homesteaded in

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South Central South Dakota in the early 1900s and they came from Illinois and they homesteaded

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by the lower brule reservation. And I thought, well, two sisters, that's a great,

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that's a great angle. I can, I was sister. I can write this. So I wrote medicine pre-claim

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about Charlotte and Lizzy Ward from Missouri and they just followed the Missouri River up to

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Yankton and out to their, what was eventually their homesteads.

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Incredible. Yeah, because in the book you used this like, have the chat to buy chat

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today. So I apologize to you, Ms. As they bang up the river.

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Well, a good portion of the book, as you alluded to, is while they're in Missouri and about

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asserted the book they're in Missouri. And at that time, as you said, Charlotte disguises herself

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as a man. They are, for lack of a better term, orphans. Both of their parents have died.

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Their younger brother, who was only 17, I think, in the book,

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in Listen the Army without permission. So Charlotte, being the oldest sister, the bossy sister,

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as I understand that, says, well, that's not going to happen. He's going to come back here. So she

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dresses as a woman. She cuts her hair off and dresses as a man and goes off to war. And she buys

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it, spoiler. But that's part of the, that's part of this, that was part of the plot. And as you said,

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while she is in the army, in the Union Army, she becomes connected with a

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army doctor who kind of teaches her some of the basics. And that was when she decided that medicine

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was her calling. Now, while she's out in the war, her sister Lizzie is still back on the farm by

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St. Joseph Missouri in that upper, upper Northwest area of Missouri. And she's on the farm. And she is

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running that farm by herself at this point. And she encounters Quantil's Raiders, who was a, that

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was a historical reference. And she also meets Frank James from James Brothers, Frank and Jesse James.

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Because they're from that same area as well. So Lizzie is off, maintaining and managing the farm while Lizzie

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Lizzie is on the farm and Charlotte is in the war. That was a long time.

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Yeah, yeah, blah, blah. I mean, it's quite complicated though, is that because she's got Charlotte

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hanging her sort of like, not really gender, but I mean, you know, dressing as a man. And you've got

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them homesitting as well. I mean, this is way back. It's incredible that on one hand, you can't

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do this on the other hand, though, you're now at home standing. How did that kind of work?

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Well, so the Homestead Act, is that the answer you want me to talk about the, okay, so the Homestead

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Act was literally and figuratively landmark legislation. It was the first time that through

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U.S. law women could own land on their own. It took 20 years for Congress to pass that law because

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they did not want to include women in it. Finally, after the Southern representatives and senators

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had left Congress for the war, the 37th Congress was able to pass that legislation. They thought

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it was really funny that they were including women in this act because women were never

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been able to make a go of it on the prairie, on the frontier. And so they said, sure, we'll

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set, well, let them do this. And they'll just go out there and they'll get married and make babies

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of the pre-apim salt. So, but that's not what happened. Lots of women went west and for different

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reasons. But most, a lot of them went west, especially if they were head of household, which they had

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to be, they were spinsters. 600,000 men died during the Civil War on both sides. Kind of hits the

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marriage pool a little bit there. So there weren't a lot of method, there weren't a lot of

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marriageable men. Also, a lot of women lost their husbands during the war, so that made a lot of

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widows. And there were some divorces who went west as well. So that was that impetus for

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sending women west. I think that's the thing though. That's what I was trying to say really is that

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it's quite unusual, I guess, for that to happen, right? So for women to be head of households and

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then reading around and having a legal face like that, I like you said, 20 years past the

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the legislation is incredible. Now for those of us who don't know, I thought you just went

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along home studying, right? And you got to speak some meat like, just coming down, and we went down

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to the other town, or something and said hello, this is my claim. But you said that

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law women proved that claim? Yes. Then then ratio is it is, is it towards women? Yes, how come? I mean,

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can you just quickly explain what the what that means? Well, the process was that you had to file

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your intent to stay for this clinic. And according to the Homestead Act, you had to live on the land for

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five years. You had to build a dwelling of some sort. And in South Dakota, a lot of them were

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dunk outs or soddies because we don't have much, we did not at that time have many trees on prairie.

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It's flat. And so they would have a sotty and they would literally dig up a sod from the prairie

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and build their house that way. So they had to live on it for five years on a build a dwelling and

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they had to improve the land. And out into Codator that net farming or ranching. So that was what

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was involved in proving a claim. After five years, you file more paperwork with the government,

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had witnesses that said, yes, this woman or this man was on the land for five years. I've seen them

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on the land. I know they improved the land. I know they're working the land. This is how many acres

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they've broken and planted or whatever. So it was a process. And that process was one that a lot of

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women were able to complete and then they were able to 160 acres. Which is fabulous, isn't it?

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Because if you think about it, whether you've had to write it because of that historical

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context is interesting, where you've got Charlotte who's not romanticized at all really. Yeah,

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she's practical, determined, capable, clearly. I mean, was it important for you to avoid turning

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your insides like a modern action hero where she fends off the bad guys? Oh gosh, no. I think that

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these are real people. In my head, they're real people. And Charlotte, once I had to find who she was.

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And I do that before I start writing. Once I had to find what her

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her mission was, what her goal was. And then I was able to write her as a person that seemed real to me.

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And I think to a lot of my readers. And then Lizzie, oh my gosh, I love Lizzie. And she was the

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younger sister, but she was the decision maker. She was the one with the vision. And she is the one

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who said when she saw, oh, my favorite quote in the book, Lizzie is in town getting windows and shopping

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and getting things for the farm. And she comes across this newspaper that says that Lincoln has

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signed the Homestead Act of 1862. And he signed it in May of '62. It would go into effect January

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1863. But she reads this and she's reading this article. And her response was,

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it's about time. So I love that about Lizzie. And exactly. She's focused as well. Very.

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Well, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, that's the other point that

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you get. I think the one choice, one trying to say is I'm trying to keep away from the historical side

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of things. Because you were a history major. Right. So we could really quite a minute go down this

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side of it. There's a lot of rabbit hole there. Yeah. Yeah. So, okay, well, there's something I think

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about this historical fiction, I think, it's primarily usually leads heavily into romance,

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things like this. But this one, you know, it feels really rooted in family and survival, really,

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because you've got Lizzie, you've got Charlotte, you've got the umbrella. I mean, was that always the

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attention? I mean, the pattern that got inside of things. Yeah. I think it was. I was trying to show

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what it would, what it would be like for these two sisters to strike out on their own. They were

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done with Missouri. Missouri had the third highest number of battles and skirmishes during the

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Civil War. It was, they call it bloody Kansas, but Missouri was bloody too. And what the Bush

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Wackers and the J. Hawkers and the Union Army and this Confederate Army, there was a lot of

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conflict and just violence in Missouri during that time. And that was something that they wanted to

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get away from. There is romance in the book. And the book has won some romance awards because I

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introduced a Confederate officer that Lizzie meets in a medic tent or that Charlotte meets when

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she's in a medic tent. And he, he realizes that he is interested in her and follows her west. But,

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so there is romance, but not for Lizzie. And I must say in medicine creak claim, I got about three

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quarters of the way through the book. And I realized I hadn't told Lizzie's story.

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Because as you taught it, it really is about Charlotte and about what she did and how she did it and

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her life. And Lizzie is there as a supporting character. But I loved Lizzie. And I thought she

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deserves her own book. Shameless plug. So I wrote, I reinforced claim about Lizzie's story seven

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years later while they're both out in the in the Codate territory. So I was able to tell both of those

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sister's stories. Well, that sounds like a really good way to do that. Because if you think about

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Charlotte and do you think about the way that I'm really just being myself from asking her spoiler

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here because she's getting involved as a doctor. No, it was a Confederate officer. Confederate officer.

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So all in the medic tent. Yeah, he was a patient patient. Okay, oh great. Sorry, thank you. That's

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okay. Actually cleaning it up. Okay, so at this time, is she still serving as a man?

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Yeah. And that's what can be use as him because he thinks I'm interested in this medic.

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And so there's some confusion up front and Charlotte has no interest in him. She thinks he

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ends. Well, she knows he's lying because she knows he must be a Confederate and he's not saying that.

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And she really, they they they had that this was a enemies to lovers relationship that

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develops during the book. So they weren't really she really didn't have any interest to him at the

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beginning. So kind of new job. Well, she's interesting, isn't it? Yeah. So I guess he kind of

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felt something but didn't and as you say, it was very produced by it. Yes.

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They did a new job. So you mentioned Charlotte finding her calling in federal world, right?

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And so we're not seeing the picture. The medical scenes, they're showing credibility.

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Oh, yeah. I yeah, I had to do research on that and I read a book called Blood

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Something and purge blood. I don't remember. It's a thick book like this and it's the whole topic is about

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medicine during the 1800s and the the instruments that they used and how they treated things and

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during the Civil War, the biggest killer was gangrene and infection. It wasn't it wasn't

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getting shot on the battlefield. It was getting shot on the battlefield and then going to a

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a medic tent or a hospital and dying from infection.

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It's incredible how the Pascows and I think what's meant who introduced the antibiotics.

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Yeah. I don't really did change. Well, I didn't know it's that it's another issue at the moment,

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isn't it? But why you were doing this research? Did any of this research actually genuinely

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shock you as in how could we post it? No, because I have read those things in the past and so I knew that

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I needed to I had a slight knowledge of it and I knew I needed to dig deeper to make sure it was

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um, accurate. I have had readers call me out on there wouldn't be a corn on the cob at this time of

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a year. So I needed to make sure that what I wrote was historically accurate.

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Yeah, definitely because I think historical, historical fiction fans wanted it. They wanted to be

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accurate. Absolutely. By stuttering fans, right? Oh yeah. They read it for your faculty. They read

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it and they'll call me out on it. So I don't want to I want to make sure that everything I write is

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historically accurate. And I do a lot of research before I read a book.

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Which is great because then you're writing the book which is fantastic. You're

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freshing out all the world and the people and you're also doing what you like doing,

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which is researching history. Right. I love history. So that's great. Okay, Slope,

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does she you said that she finds her brother? Yes. So how does that

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unfolds? And is that my major part of the book? Is it like, go on together during?

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No, it was a vehicle to move the plot forward to get her out on the battlefield.

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And she finds her brother. He's been wounded. She hauls them into a medic tent. And um, nobody

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and they're so busy there. And the, the they were just they were organized chaos or disorganized

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chaos, maybe even. And so nobody was going to be able to treat him. So she starts treating him.

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And that's when this surgeon, this union army surgeon looks at watches her and says,

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this soldier knows what he's doing. And so he recruits Charlotte to be his assistant in the

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medic tents. But yeah, she finds her brother and that's that's just a way to move the story forward.

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It's part of the plot. Okay, so she gets recruited to be the medic. Yes, still as a as a man. Yes,

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yeah. Because they didn't have nurses. Then I know they did not.

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It's pretty good. It's amazing. Okay, let's have a look. I mean, we're up,

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we're supposed to get close to the end here. But I've got some questions. I still need to ask you.

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I was thinking that your Missouri, I know, I guess in every civil war, but there's some in Missouri,

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Missouri, it feels like there's like, deeply fractured. Like families are fighting

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trivits. Civil war's, you know, inside their homes or, you know, between families. I mean,

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I know that happens quite often within civil war. But was that an intentional sort of parallel

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to wider America at the moment? So not really, but you just really just know, no, no, it was just a fat

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to that that happened in Missouri and neighbors were fighting neighbors and my hero in the book,

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who is a union or is a Confederate officer from Missouri. And Charlotte asks him,

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why are you fighting? Your family has a horse ranch and you don't have any enslaved people on your

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land. And he said, no, but all of our neighbors do. And I could not join the Union Army and keep them safe.

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So no, it was a, it was just, it was a fact of life in Missouri. And I think in a, in a number of

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southern quasi-southern states, but Missouri especially, the Bushwackers and Jay Hawkers were a good

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example of that. Well, amazing. So I mean, as you say, you know, your books have been written quite

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of free now. And they kind of look at claiming land by women, building farms, upgrading independence,

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which is, which seems to be quite rare at the time, clearly, because of legislation and what

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have it. But what fascists you really about the particular homestead era?

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That women finally had a choice. They had a choice to um,

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strike out on their own, start a new life on whether it's in Dakota territory or someplace

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farther west or or wherever. And um, make a life for themselves and not be dependent on another

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person, especially a father, a husband, a brother, whatever. That was, it was the first time, right?

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Yeah, it was really the first time that we, it was the first time in America that women could own land

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on the rule. They couldn't vote. I don't think so. They couldn't vote yet, but they could own land.

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Exactly. And I was going to say that in the UK, I think that it was a case that you could vote if

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you were a landowner. Yeah. Or you could only vote if you were a landowner. I think I was right.

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And at the end of the day, women could go land. Then there you go. Then you can't vote.

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Obviously, it's slightly different in America, which is great. You know, it's incredible.

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So what do you think then that modern audiences, you know, what can they take away from,

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from this kind of book or from your stories? And at least really.

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Oh boy, that's a, that's a hard question. I think, well,

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historical fiction is really escapism at its best in my opinion. And I think that by making it

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historically accurate fiction, I am giving them a glimpse at maybe what their great-grandmas

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or their great-great-ans did, maybe, or what women had the ability to do. And the women I write

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about are all strong. They've come from different parts of the country. They settle in the co-deterritory.

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And they start farms and ranches. They build lives for themselves. And they contribute to their

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communities. And I think that that was integral in every plot that I wrote.

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I think that makes sense, doesn't it? I think modern audiences are very, very likely,

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you know, at the moment, before reading your book or anything based on this era,

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I mean, to underestimate exactly how physically difficult survival was during then, right?

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Because I mean, audiences have already, they've forgotten, not his name.

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It was, it was very hard. And so earlier you asked, so why the difference in the 42% and the 37%?

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While my sons have not read my books, one of them was, we were talking about it. And in the intro,

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and in the intro of the book, I had written that and he said, I get it, Mom, these women didn't have a plan B.

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So they came out West without a plan B. They didn't want to stay back in New England and take

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care of Mom and Dad and their golden years. They don't want to be a caretaker. They wanted a life

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of their own. And that was it. They weren't going to go to them, the Gold Fields in California or

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Colorado or Wyoming or wherever. They had, this was their do or die moment.

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And so there you are. I mean, we don't have any parallels to that nowadays.

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They reign now we don't. Oh, no, right now. But can you see something coming?

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Sure.

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Will it explain? Well, I think that I hope that women are going to have a bigger say in what happens

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in our culture in the future.

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Now that's fair. No, exactly. So is that the sort of hope and feeling that you

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read is a left with? I'm just finishing the novel.

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I think so. And you know, when I wrote Lizzie's story in Ironmer's claim, I really made her a

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community leader. And people looked at Lizzie Ward as somebody with a vision.

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And I loved that about her.

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I think that's something that America has.

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Those other countries don't have to be honest. It is the civil or civic pride and pushing things

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forward, you know, from the community level, which is great. And that sounds like what Lizzie's

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going to be doing in the next book. So we're running out of time now. And let's have a look at the

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books. Tell us about where you can get them. Have a website. How can people contact you?

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Sure. There are for sale on my website, which is www.ckdn.com. Pretty easy. Just my name.com.

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And if you order them on my website, I'll sign up for you and I'll ship it off to you for free.

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Easy. And all four of my books are available on my web. I'll six of my books actually are available

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on my website to order and I'll ship them off to you with any signature you want on.

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I also have the audio books and I have ebooks and those are all available on my website as well.

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I also am on Amazon under my author name, CKVandam. And I am on IngramSpark and bookshop and all my

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gosh lots of different platforms. My audio books are on Audible and they're on about 40 different

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platforms. So if you're on the trip books or bookbub or any of those other you can get my audio

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books there. And I have new libraries and I love having them in libraries. So ask your library to

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carry it. Exactly. Now that's great. Well, let's see. Hey, you've got everybody's covered.

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I hope so. Exactly. Well, it's C.K. Van Dam. Thank you very, very much for joining me on author

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conversation stage. It's been a pleasure to talk about this. I'm only an amateur and it comes to

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history. But you know obviously you're a good book professional, you're lying. But medicine

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pre-clean sounds excellent. And it's available now. It's just from here this is everybody.

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And there we are. There's the book as well. And don't forget that Nisi has a follow on book.

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Yeah. So yeah, so thanks for watching or listening. I don't think it's a like, subscribe and follow

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the world conversations with authors and like it's short. By the books. By the books. By the books. Yeah.

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Thank you. See now I've got to say I like them. I'm listening. It's very good.

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We've been trying to put it up in a free stream on that for years or a while. Thank you.

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So I was hopefully we'll speak again in the future about other books of yours. But for viewers

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or listeners, I'll see you or until next time. And don't forget to like and subscribe.

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And C.K. Van Dam It's been an absolute pleasure. Thank you. And this was very fun. Thank you very much.

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I'll go ahead.

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If you enjoyed this conversation, you can watch more author conversations here.

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