Ghost Ships, Secret Experiments and the Mystery of Do Not Open | David Dye

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Hi there and welcome to author conversations. I'm Chris Dabbs and today I'm joined by David

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Dye, whose author of Do Not Open, a historical supernatural thriller that's inspired by one of

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the world's most unsettling maritime mysteries. Now, David has had a fascinating career path

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from law enforcement on one hand to technology training and quantitative finance and now fiction

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writing. Now, you know, that unusual background feeds directly into the investigative style of

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his storytelling, combining real history, classified secrets and mythology with supernatural suspense.

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Oh, I can't wait to get into this, David. So the novel begins in 1947 when the crew of the

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SS Silver Star discovers a drifting ghost ship in the strait of Malacca. On board, they find every

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crew member dead. Their faces frozen in terror, and alongside a cryptic Morse code message,

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the lid has been opened. Well, from there, the story stretches across decades of hidden history,

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secret Nazi occult experiments, unit 731, ancient legends, wartime mysteries, and the strange

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case of the Summerton man, all connected by mysterious ancient amulet believed to carry extra

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ordinary power. David, after that intro, welcome to all the conversations. I can't wait to talk to you.

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Thank you. So, okay, let's start off with a nice easy one, really. I mean, where did you get the idea

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for the book? So my two boys and I would watch Discovery Channel quite often. It was something when

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they were young, it was age appropriate, and we had, you know, watched unsolved mysteries and

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like all of those. And, you know, after they grew up and left, I started watching one of those shows

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again, unsolved mysteries. And I was like, you know, what if I could go ahead and take all of these

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unsolved mysteries and lore and time together and actually say, here's here's what caused them,

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you know, all throughout time. The Orang Mdun was probably one of the most interesting because,

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you know, it still, is it war or is it fact? And there was enough fact in there and documentation

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to make you wonder. I mean, you have to decide for yourself. So, yeah, with the ship and exactly

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what happened, the first argument that it comes up as the ship was never registered, which makes sense

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because it's a were smugglers. So they're not going to register their ship. So, you know, exactly what

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did happen and did it happen was unknown, except, you know, going back, I was able to find that there

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were articles written mostly in from Germany, Denmark, that went delved into the story and said,

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here's what happened. It was interesting too because back at the time, unlike modern communications,

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the relay stations and the ships didn't keep logs of the Morse code, which is the SOS that was sent.

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So there's no way to say definitively that yes or no, it didn't happen.

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And the more that I went into it, I was able to find a CIA document that mentioned your Rung Mdung.

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And, you know, that said, a lot of the travels, this could be travel dangers that we have today,

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really could be part of what had happened with the Rung Mdung. And then come to find out that one of

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the maritime publications actually documented the Rung Mdung. So, which goes back to, you know,

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just because it's documented, they didn't have the internet at the time. So you couldn't, you too

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a bit, you couldn't stream on FaceTime. But you could be able to say, you know, at that time,

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if it's written down, then people took that as it's no longer lower, this must have happened,

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or someone's taken the time to write it down. So I started there because that was the most intriguing

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and enough background to be able to make you question. Did it happen or didn't it? And I kind of worked

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backers and said, okay, so it starts with the Rung Mdung, but then, you know, what caused it,

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and then went back into time and, you know, kind of picked out other mysteries. While I was writing it,

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I was trying to keep as much historical facts as possible. So a lot of the people that are in the book

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actually existed at the time, they may not have been doing the exact, you know, for example,

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in Normandy, I had one of the shipmates and he did exist, but he wasn't a shipmate. He was actually

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a doctor that they called Dr. Satan because he was disbard from medicine. I was like, all right,

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that he was in Normandy. He was a doctor. He was evil. I'll use that as part of the background of

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the character. So it was fun going back and trying to say, okay, how can I string these together?

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The difficulty was keeping the timeline straight, you know, to make sure that, you know, if I beard off

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by two, three years, then people were going to be like, that was two, three years too early or too late.

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So just going back and trying to tie these back together was, it was fun. And my wife and I spent

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quite some time traveling to like the, we went to Belgium, France, England, New York, Ellis Island,

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Italy, Spain to do the background of the research. So a lot of the places are actually real. We visit

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them. Hotels, restaurants, the neighborhoods. So yeah, it was fun to write and research and, you know,

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to be able to see you, yeah, that couldn't have happened because here's what it looked like at the time.

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Wow. So this is the kind of thing where your attention to detail really works, doesn't it? You know,

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I mean, yeah, because at the end of the day, you were a police officer. And then you went to become

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what a trainer and Microsoft and stuff. So Microsoft SQL Server Trainer. Yeah. Wow. Okay, SQL Server,

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right? Yeah. Well, that just scares me when I hear that. But, yeah, I mean, you know, this is the

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amazing thing. So I guess this is what attracted you to writing stories that kind of blur the line

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then between fact and legend or lore as you were putting it, right? Yes. Yeah, that was, that was the

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whole point. I mean, to try and decide what's back, what's fiction, what's lore, mythology. And even

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in the book, with mythology, mythology is generally what what you can explain back in the time then

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it fell back to mythology. And, you know, here's what causes a solar eclipse. You know, here's,

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here's what causes tsunamis, things like that, you know, that they couldn't explain that they didn't

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have the science at the time. They use mythology. Imagine living by that doctor being,

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I said, well, one way it would be quite good, isn't it? Because you just wouldn't know both, you know,

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I think, yeah, I'm, you know, you're right. You know, the internet, it's, it wears spoils now, I think,

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we can do whatever we want. But this is one of the issues, isn't it? Like the opening premise of the

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book, right? Is I think deeply unsettling here because it feels plausible. So, I mean, was creating that

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sense of this might actually have happened. This actually might have happened and is real important to

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you? Yeah, it was. I wanted to go through and like I said, I wanted as much fact as possible. And

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during my research, and then trying to tie everything back together, like for example, Unit 731 was a

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unit I had never heard of. And, you know, when I researched it and found just the heinous crimes that

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they were doing, and you know, after, after they were found out and somewhere arrested and tried,

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a lot of whom the doctors and the researchers were given light sentences in order to work on projects

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for, for Russia, for, you know, other countries. So, you know, I thought that was a disturbing fact that,

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you know, I, and I forget how I had come across it. But I was like, this really fits into the story quite

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well. Or I can make it fit into the story. And that was one of the reasons that, you know, that

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one of the theories that the Irungma Dunn exploded is because they were carrying hazardous materials,

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muggling hazardous materials. And I thought, well, why not? That could be materials from

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Unit 731. So that, that would make sense. Yeah, yeah. So, once the Unit 731 actually get up to

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that, what, what was they up to? Unit 731. So, back in the 40s, there was a war with China and Japan

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that was started by the Manchurian incident where Japan staged an attack, making it look like it was

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from China, which then allowed or gave them the justification to attack China. During the attack of China,

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they took over the Manchurian province. And that's where they set up Unit 731. So Unit 731 was mainly

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biomedical and chemical weapons. At one time, they infected fleas with syphilis and dropped them

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into a village to see how that would affect them. They did experiments like freezing someone's limbs

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and then dethroning it to see what type of effect it had. So they truly heinous crimes. But, you know,

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they relied on chemicals, biochemical and human experimentation just to see, you know, where,

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where they said a bullet can kill one person, a bomb can kill many indiscriminately, but we want to

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be able to target, you know, biochemicals or chemicals or, you know, a frailty of humans and disease

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and see how we can target and affect thousands. Yeah, okay. I see what you're going there then. So,

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it's lucky that we're not talking about gene therapy, even though they're probably on their way to

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doing something like that. We're not therapy even, but gene warfare, right? Yes. But, okay, all right,

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well, that's enough of that bit, nothing. But let's move on to the amulet then, because that feels

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almost like a, like its own character, doesn't it? I mean, when did that central idea first come to you?

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Actually, when I looked at the Arungma Dunn, well, I looked at it, I picked seven different

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mysteries and laws and said, you know, what could these be tied together and how could it be? And the

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the amulet just was low hanging fruit. You know, it was something that, you know, to release the evil,

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but, you know, the amulets, when at the end of the story, I go into how the amulet was created. And,

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you know, it wasn't just one event. There were three different events that created that amulet,

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each of which had its own supernatural power or power or effect. So, you know, tying that together,

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and then putting it within, within the story and then showing that, you know, just it's not truly evil,

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it depends on who's holding it, the intentions of who has it. And so, what could it actually, without

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giving us too much? What could it have been used for if it was not entirely evil?

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So, it was based after Pandora's Box, which was a mis-translation. It was a vase. And so, the amulet,

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I thought, well, other than just a vase, what if it was an amulet of a vase? And then in

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scribe on it said, "Do not open." And that was, in the story of Pandora, Zeus set Pandora down

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to punish humankind. And he said, "Since he was made human, then he knew curiosity would be

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or downfall." And what would make you more curious than to carry an amulet around your neck,

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always staring at it that says, "Do not open, wondering." You know, how, what's, why shouldn't I open it?

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What's inside? So, in the myth, all the evils of the world were placed within Pandora's Box,

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within the vase, the amulet. And when it was opened, then ellipsis was the only one not to leave,

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and that was hope. So, Zeus had put hope within the amulet, but ordered you won't leave. So, in one

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part to the story, I mean, again, kind of to fit it to my needs, hope was still within the vase. So,

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depending upon who had the amulet and what their intentions were, what their heart was,

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then it didn't mean it was going to release the evils of the world again. You know, hope could still

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be released. And in one story that actually, you know, when it was opened, it did show that,

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you know, fighting stopped, and you know, that was without running that part, you know, but it showed

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that hope was had been released. See, well, that, well, that's great. I mean, you know, it's nice to know

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that there is something that these things can be useful, these supernatural kind of elements,

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or amulets, you know. Okay, so, you mentioned this already, but I think it's probably worth diving

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into it a bit more for any authors that are listening and looking for tips on this, right? I mean,

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the book moves through obviously multiple periods of history and different global events at the same

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time. But how difficult was it to structure something so ambitious without losing narrative

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momentum? And also, how did you check, you know, keep track across all that time?

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So I started out with an outline that was always evolving. And I began writing. And like I said,

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the Orangma Dunn was one of the most compelling stories, mysteries, lore that I had found. So I figured

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this is a good place to start. It was easy to write. It came to me. And after that, that's when I said,

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okay, do I go forward? Do I go backwards? You know, in the story, Tommy is really has no redeeming

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qualities whatsoever. He wasn't a real person, but his brother was a real person. And George

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Edward Ellison, he was British expeditionary force. He was at the first battle of Mons, the angel of

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Mons. And he was the last British expeditionary force soldier to be killed in Mons, 90 minutes before

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the armistice had been signed. So I was like that with the history of that, you know, I added a brother.

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And I was asked, you know, why did you change the name? And the reason was because, you know, I didn't

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feel right to have a war hero and then anchor him down with this terrible brother that didn't exist.

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But, you know, George Edward Ellison was based on a real person. And then I just began to follow it

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throughout time. And, you know, I worked backwards and then went ahead and moved forward. So as I was

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writing it, like the outline was a good part, I did a lot of research. And like I said, I tried to find

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time relevant people, events, places. And I was able to do that. And then, you know, I would have to

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go back and rewrite. I had an editor at the time when I first started writing this. And, you know,

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I would do maybe three, ten pages a day at first. And he would give me back one or two. And he's like,

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look, you know, just right. You know, that, and that was the best advice I had got. He said, just right.

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You know, I'll take care of the editing. Don't worry about your grammar. Just right, right? The

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idea is down. And then we'll go through them. So after he gave me that advice, it went, it went much

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faster. You know, I still, and he said, don't overread it. You know, don't spend time before you

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start writing again. Don't read what you wrote before. Just continue writing. Read the last paragraph,

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start writing again. And that really did help. You know, that was, that was something that, you know,

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I started turning out more pages. I think out of 282, I probably had, there was well over 350,

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you know, before we got started narrowing it down. You see, but this is great though, isn't it?

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It's exactly what you want an editor to do, isn't it? You know, guide you and advise you and act as a

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mentor. So yeah, well, excellent. Well, that's, I think we always try to, yeah, just, just get there,

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really. You know, I'm trying to think how do it? How can I explain how I would feel holding myself back

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from writing because I wanted it to be perfect, you're right, you know, and I think that's the thing,

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isn't it? Because it's so close to you that you want to make sure that it's done, especially, you

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know, that you've got such a strong kind of cinematic quality to the story, especially in those maritime

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scenes. I mean, did you actually, when you were doing this and writing it and all that, we visualizing

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it as almost like a film while you were writing it? You know, I didn't have that idea at first. I had

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some advanced readers and they were all like, this would be better as a movie. And so, you know,

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as I started going through it, I think I wanted to keep the same feel, you know, so it flowed.

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But I actually had someone that has come to me and, you know, they're interested in saying,

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you know, would you be interested? You know, if it's right to have either a television series or

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a movie made out of it. And so, I mean, hopefully that works out. I've gotten really good feedback.

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So, but yeah, the main feedback that I did get was, you know, this really should be, you should make

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this a movie. Well, hang on a sec, I'll just call Spielberg and see what he has to say for me.

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But yeah, amazing, you know, I mean, that's going to be high praise, isn't it? So, we have to keep

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a lookout for that as to whether it's a movie or a TV show. That's just a whole other career path

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for you as well, isn't it up to everything that you've done? Oh my gosh, screenplay writing and

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everything else. But I think that one of the things that's that's quite memorable for all of this

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and it is actually incredibly simple is that, you know, the lead has been opened kind of thing,

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right? I mean, did you know immediately that that would become like the emotional hook of the

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whole novel? No, not at first. Now, I didn't at first. And then like I said, some of the advanced readers

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were like, yeah, that was, so I think I went back and, you know, I kind of added that. And the fact that

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it just not anyone could open the lid, there was, you know, a specific way and, you know, that,

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you know, it just that did become kind of the hook. And that's how great. I mean, as well,

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I'm okay. So, I mean, actually, yes, you know, like a lot of readers, a lot of the public enjoy stories

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that mix conspiracy theories with real history. And it's kind of what you've done, isn't it, right?

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Why do you think the audiences like us are so fascinated by hidden truths and all these secret histories

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that keep running around the place? I think they always, you know, is it true or is it not? You know,

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to be to be the one to say, oh, I proved it was true or oh, I proved it was false or just, you know,

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to wonder. You know, there are a lot of books that are written that, you know, they leave you hanging

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and, you know, did it really happen? Like the summer to nana, the last chapter, you know,

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that's one that I'm working on the next in the series now. And that's one that was really interesting

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to me too, you know, and I considered opening up with that. But, you know, I decided to be

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better to start where it began. But there's, like I said, there's enough facts within the summer

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to man within that mystery to make you wonder, wait, could it really have been this person? You know,

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what caused it? What caused the death? Well, was he a spy? What was he caring? So, you know, I think people,

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they do enjoy that, you know, and I've got a lot of feedback and from the reviews and the messages

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and emails I've gotten, they've been like, you know, I couldn't believe it. They actually, they said,

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you know, I Google this person, they really existed and that's, you know, this restaurant,

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cultures, that's a real place. And so, yeah, I mean, to say, wow, that that was true, and to actually

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tie it back to the time period and the location and the people around it. So, I think that that's

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everyone finds that interesting to say, wow, you know, even though only part of it is true, just,

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but what part isn't? And that's that's kind of what catches on.

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Yeah, yeah, it's kind of like gossip thing, isn't it? As you said, you know, I knew about this way

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before you guys find found out, you know, and it's all, yeah, I think it's great. In order to do that

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and to stand by the water cooler or whatever and to talk about these things. And obviously,

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the novel it touches on other things as well, like despair and hope and the consequences of

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forbidden knowledge. I think this is the point, isn't it, right? You know, do not open all of that sort

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of thing. So, beneath those thriller elements, really, what themes were you most interested in

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exploring? Like you said, despair and hope, the diversity based on who had the annulet and, you

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know, what the effect that it had, even if it wasn't open, you know, what affected it had on people.

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You know, some just complete obsession and others were terror. I mean, just being around it, which

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which is explained in the story, why, you know, why that had occurred. You know, I like the fact that,

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you know, it wasn't just based on Pandora's Box. The whole way it was made, you know, there was

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myth, three myths behind it before even got to Pandora's Box. And each one of those myths had its own

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force behind the annulet. And that also kind of drove the story when, you know, when in war or,

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you know, when it got to World War One with Hitler. And even World War Two, when Hitler came in

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possession of it. So, you know, I think that how the way it changes hands and the way that it moves

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throughout history. Yeah, yeah. Well, this is, again, where your attention to detail has managed to

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sort of manage that journey, right? Which again, you know, is very interesting. I think that,

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obviously, we're starting to run out of time, David, can you believe I mean, the time just flies.

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This is incredible. It always happens. I get very upset. But we've got time for a couple more

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questions. But I mean, was there a moment then when you were doing all of this research, you know,

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with the unit 71 and all of these things, where the story was becoming kind of darker than

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you originally intended it to be. And if it was, I mean, what did you do about that to try and

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pull it back already? I guess you wouldn't just drag it through and say, I'm not going to use that.

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But you try and change it, right? Right. Yeah, I got to, with unit 731, that that was probably

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the darkest. You know, and the more that I researched than just the more disgusting it became.

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So I think I had probably another chapter, chapter and a half of 731 units, 731. And like you

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had said, I was like this, that it went way, way to the dark side. And I thought this, that's not

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what the way I wanted to portray the story. So yeah, I changed that, abbreviated it, and, you know,

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took out some of the details just to be able to kind of keep the flow and the feel of the story

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the same. So it wasn't really because the, it was just too warfare. You just didn't want to be,

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like, sensationalized things and sort of like draw away from the book. Okay. Yeah, from the,

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from the main narrative. And that makes sense. Okay. So let's just go back to a nice,

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simple question after this, 731 thing. I mean, do you think that some mysteries are better left

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unexplained or unexplainable even, you know, we've got what UFOs, we were bigfoot, you know, the classics.

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But what do you think about that? I mean, is that something that, you know, you sat there and watched

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all these things with your son, your sons or other? What do you think? Is it good to have that there?

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It's just in case or do we really want to know the answers to these things? To be honest, I think it

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depends on the person I know for me, you know, I want to know the answers. I was one of those kids

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that when I was young, I'd get my toys and take them apart to see how they worked. And, you know, so

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that was always interesting. And, and I mean, to me, you know, I can't think of a single mystery that

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it's better left unfound, you know, or just leave it alone and let it be a mystery.

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You know, I'm always interested in, you know, did it really happen? And if it did, how did it happen?

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Exactly. I'm with you on that one. I've got to say, right? When I was growing up,

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there were in the UK, there was a series of magazines that like a weekly series or a fortnight,

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you know, every two weeks or something, series of magazines that were called the unexplained.

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Okay, so, you know, UK authors of my age will understand this. And so they came out and it covered,

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I don't know, maybe one, two, three or four mysteries, you know, spontaneous human combustion or something

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like that, right? And I'll never forget the pictures that they used in this magazine. And it's

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like, well, it's greenish really, it was horrible. But, you know, I used to think it as a 12 or 13-year-old,

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oh my gosh, why is that person's ankle there? Right? And you probably know the picture I'm talking

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about. But it's something where I also wanted to know why and why that happened rather than,

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oh my gosh, it can't just happen, right? And I'm sure that most people like that. And I'm not going

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to spoil that one by letting anyone know exactly what science says about that, but anyway. Okay, so

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to wrap things up David, when readers finish the book, what do you hope that they think after they

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close that book and they go, wow, and then they turn to their partner and say, you know what? What is

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it that you'd like them to think? Well, the way that it ended was kind of on a cliffhanger. And I've

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gotten that, you know, please tell me you are following up on this, you know, at the ending,

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there's still a lot more story to tell. So I hope that they still have that desire. But

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like I said, I like the reviews and the feedback that I get where they say, you know, I've

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I actually looked at stuff up that person existed. This plane's existed. You know, that made me wonder.

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So was it really there? And like I said, my wife and I spent quite a time, bit of time traveling.

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And just to make sure we were getting it actually correct.

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And like with Ellis Island, we went to New York two times and spent two, three days on Ellis Island

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getting the, you know, the way that they were they were moved through Ellis Islands, you know,

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how they were checks, how they walked up the stairway, how their eyes were checks, how chalk was put

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on their on their collars. You know, we took pictures of them and you know, several of the families

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and the people mentioned in the book on the boat and on Ellis Island, actually we went through the

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manifest and we used those names and the stories that we could find about them. So I hope that they

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just get a feeling I, it spurs their interest more to say, Hey, how much of this was was real?

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Because a lot of time was spent trying to make sure it was accurate as possible and using real people.

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Brilliant. And yeah, obviously comes across doesn't it in the story and everything that you,

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yeah, as I say, the amount of attention you spent on it and crafted the whole book. So

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Ellis Island, second, isn't it though? It's about keeping an audience and making sure that you sort of,

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you know, satisfy them in one respect, but keep them coming back for more later on. So let's hope

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that something happens with it with, well, at least another book and we'll see what happens with

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screenplays and things like that. Yeah, yeah, I already started on the other book. I just finished

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novella and we're going through the first round of editing now. So that will be out in a couple of months,

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but I started a couple of weeks ago, the second book in this series. So yeah, open to peak everyone's

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interest again. Yeah, exactly. Well done. That's great then. Good. Well, hopefully listeners, viewers,

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you can obviously try and find the book. David, whereabouts is it sold by the way?

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It's sold on Amazon, books of million, Barnes and Noble, Walmart, Apple Books. So pretty much

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any can get it anywhere. The audio book will be out next month. Okay, that's cool as well, because

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people obviously like an audio book nowadays in the fast, in the fast changing world that we're in.

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And do you have a website or something that people can sort of find out more about you?

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I do. I do. It's David and I do. Author dot com. David and I author dot com. Excellent.

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Well, guys, you know, look David up, you know, getting touched, send some feedback through when you

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finish reading the book or even halfway through. I'm sure David loves to hear from you and help

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you along the way if he can. But David, listen, thank you for joining me on author conversations.

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I've been Chris Dabbs, your host today. And the book is Do Not Open, a historical supernatural thriller

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that blends maritime mystery, wartime conspiracy, mythology and investigative suspense into a story

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that asks what happens when dangerous secrets are finally uncovered. Wow, this is a great book.

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If you enjoy atmospheric thrillers grounded in real historical mysteries and also knowing how much

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work David has put into the research in this. Well, this is definitely one to look out for.

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You can find Do Not Open online now, including through Amazon as David was just saying.

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And if you've enjoyed this conversation, please follow author conversations for more interviews

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with writers about the stories, ideas and experiences behind their books. David, it's been

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great talking to you and learning about the craft of writing a book that you've just done.

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And look, good luck to you. And thank you very much for joining me. Thank you for inviting me. Thank you.

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If you enjoyed this conversation, you can watch more author conversations here.

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