Thomas Redick on Trump, Reparations, Race & Historical Justice with Chris Dabbs

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Hello, and welcome to author conversations with Chris Dabs.

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Now, today we're discussing a book that steps directly into one of the most politically

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and emotionally charged debates in modern America, reparations, race, history, and the

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role of government.

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My guest is author Thomas Reddick, whose book Time for Trump's Patriotic Reparations,

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argues that the United States may be approaching a moment where reparations for black Americans

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move from political theory into practical policy.

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The book examines the legacy of slavery, reconstruction, Jim Crow laws, lynching and historical

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injustice, while also making the controversial argument that Donald Trump could become

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the political figure capable of delivering a federal reparations framework.

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You know, it's a book that combines history, constitutional arguments, public policy,

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modern political analysis, and it raises difficult questions about accountability, legality,

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national identity, and how societies confront historical harm.

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Now this conversation is not an endorsement of any political position, by the way.

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The aim is to explore the ideas in the book critically, thoughtfully, and in depth.

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So with that said, Thomas Reddick, welcome to conversation.

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Well, thank you for the kind words, and I do appreciate the chance to talk about this

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time, Lee.

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But he couldn't be more timely.

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Could it really?

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That's face it.

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So yeah, absolutely.

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As we're recording it right now, I mean, you know, I guess Donald Trump is really at the

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forefront of geopolitics right now, okay?

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At the time of recording, and I can't imagine that's changed too much, but when you're viewing

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it viewers, but your book, Thomas, makes the unusual argument that Donald Trump, a figure

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who's often criticized by opponents on racial issues, could actually become the president

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who delivers reparations.

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I mean, why do you believe he's uniquely positioned to do that politically?

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Well, his unique position is that he is the most racist president, maybe since Andrew

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Johnson or it, God knows who else could be more racist than him.

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Yet he is positioned because of his relationships with California and New York governors who are

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working on reparations.

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To propose a federal solution that has his name on it, and I think it all, it plays to his

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strengths that he is a deal maker.

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He loves to put his name on things.

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And if anybody ever moved fast and break things, it's Donald Trump.

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So he is a person who is well positioned to deliver a federal solution that polls that

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were doing, I'm burning it, 25% support, which was just what the support was when Ronald

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Reagan gave $2.5 billion to the Japanese.

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So it is like so teed up its bizarre.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Having him do it is also a very bizarre proposal.

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But I see it.

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Yes, he needs a federal guy.

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The next federal guy could do it.

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The next federal guy after that could do it.

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But we need a federal solution.

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California is working on its thing, New York's doing its things are doing different things.

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We need a uniform federal solution to this very problematic issue.

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So I think, you know, I somewhat of an outsider in the US is interesting that, you know, for

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me to look at the political state of the nation there and see that, as you say, California is

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thinking about one way of doing things.

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New York state is thinking of another way or New York is thinking of another way.

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And that kind of, it's interesting because you want it to be a federal country-wide kind

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of agreement.

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So what would happen if those states didn't agree with whatever Trump came up with, say,

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and decided to overrule it or to add to it?

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Is that how it would work?

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Well, it's interesting because this has happened in other federal preemption situations.

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For example, with guns, New York said, we're not sitting quietly while you preempt us.

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And they sort of started looking for holes.

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But what the federal solution did was give enough pressure that it forced the states to

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start thinking outside the box.

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And I do think if you do the federal solution, it's going to be the first reparations law.

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There may be 20 of these.

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That's what they did with the Nazis.

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A bunch, they went back and back and back and back.

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So here we have the first federal law that will tell California.

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You don't get to do it.

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You pay into the Trump Foundation that we created by this law.

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And California might not sit quietly, but they do have the law preventing them from giving

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anything to anybody anywhere until they work with the federal government.

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So I think it's going to be a very unique use of preemption.

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It's different in a lot of ways than what we did with pesticides or with guns or other

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preemptive laws, because this one will trigger the national dialogue that we need.

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And we have been delaying this national dialogue for at least 40 years, maybe 250 years.

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And it is also the 250th birthday of this country.

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So high time we got to deal with this problem that has been with us for 250 years.

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So really need to work it out.

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Yeah, it's quite interesting.

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Actually, again, I think another point to look at it is from the global perspective, of course,

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is that there's a lot of conversations that are happening around the world about reparations

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for slavery and those sorts of things.

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And so I guess if the states were to go for that and actually federally mandate what

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should happen, then there are going to be massive ripples that go across the world, right?

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So what's your view on that?

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Well, I have a second book on indigenous reparations, which takes those issues apart and tries to

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deal with them.

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It's a hard book to write.

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I must admit, because the world has to come to the altar of reparations and do its business

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well.

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And it's not an easy path that we're embarking upon.

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I do think though, if the United States can come up with at least one solution and work

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out the very difficult issues it has with its own reparations approach, it will teach the

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rest of the world, you know, what can you do here?

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Just as we're learning from the Nazis and a little bit from Ronald Reagan, the history

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of this is something that is going to be written in America first, I think.

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It is just so well teed up here for Donald Trump or the next president or the next president

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to take this issue and work with it and make sure that we do justice in the zero.

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Yeah, it's interesting.

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You say about doing justice because, you know, one of the most striking themes I think in

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your book is your distinction between, say, hang on, sorry, just just think about this

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for a second.

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Actually, thinking about this, you know, as I'm saying, one of the most striking themes

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in the book is your distinction really between slavery era reparations is what I'm

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meant to say and reparations linked to, I guess, reconstruction, Jim Crow and the lynching

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that used to happen as well.

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I mean, why do you think it was important to you to separate those historical periods

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sort of legally and politically?

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Well, when I was first researching the book and I was told by my father after he saw a speech

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I did on it, write a book, Tom, so I read every book.

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And it's clear to me that there's a path that we are following here that was made in

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history because we have basically a federal system and we have a civil war that we fought

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years ago.

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We spent humongous amounts of blood, treasure and pensions that were repaying well into

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the 20th century for the civil war.

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There has to be a credit for that work that we've already done.

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There has to be somebody to say our constitution has an ex post facto clause, which basically

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says slavery was legal, therefore you can't sue for compensation for it.

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I have not in all my readings seen anyone take on that ex post facto clause.

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That's why I wrote my book because I thought somebody needs to talk about this.

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And frankly, there's so much we've done to these folks.

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You really don't need slavery to get the job done because there is a massive 150 years

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of being mean to people that really needs to get paid.

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It's much more recent and much more recoverable under the law.

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The law doesn't like to look too far back.

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It doesn't want to go into the injustice of the world going back to when we were bacteria.

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There has to be a level at which we just say, okay, we were mean to somebody there, but

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we don't get to pay for that now.

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So we have statutes limitations, though, that we routinely toll for when someone has

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done child molestation, someone has done something involved and they couldn't get to court

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because they had a gun against their head.

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They do not enforce the sat

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limitations against people who have not been allowed to sue because of the various reasons.

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So this is clearly something that they can do and they should do.

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And it's well into the world of doing it now, I think.

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Again, it's another point, isn't it? Where do you draw the line?

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300 years, 400 years, 500, 1000, 2000 years ago.

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So I think that's one of the big arguments with this side of things.

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And also another argument, of course, is as you just mentioned, slavery reparations are

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illegally and financially difficult because slavery, as you said, was lawful at the time.

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And of course, the Civil War, as you also discussed, you know, carried enormous human and economic

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costs.

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So critics, I guess they may say that long term damage caused by slavery risks, but it kind

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of risks minimizing the problem of it if you see what I mean.

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I mean, how do you respond to that?

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Well, as I mentioned before, this is the first law that we're going to do.

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Okay.

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Every expo's facto has many exceptions and I would be the first person to say somebody

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should do a law review article and really dig into why the expo's facto clause does not

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prevent slavery.

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There's people working in that area and I've talked with many of them and traded emails.

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So I don't think that Civil War is completely gone because of my book.

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My book points out at first we need to get over it and we need to do something.

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It's not the end of the thing, but clearly there's an easy path and a difficult path.

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And I think California is having its struggle with the Civil War right now, which is why

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they're cutting off their payments at 1910 and not even looking at a lot of Jim Crowett.

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I'm speculating.

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I wasn't involved in that and I'd be first to say they were good to try to do it.

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So they're working on it and it's a tough issue.

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Yeah.

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Well, yeah.

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Well, of course, okay, well, let's have a look at, you mentioned earlier on the historical

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precedents, including payments to Japanese Americans that were interned during World War

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II.

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And of course, the German reparations or the Nazi reparations should say following the

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Holocaust.

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I mean, do you believe that those examples kind of are directly, well, I guess comparable

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to the black American experience or are there important differences between all those?

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Well, there are very much apples and oranges differences.

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But they're the precedent and as an lawyer, I do work on precedent.

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Somebody did this before.

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Therefore, we should do it again.

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And when you look at the Japanese, they did it pro-Rata, $2.5 billion, just paid out and

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they didn't try to distinguish.

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I think with this crime, we need to distinguish.

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That's why we create a foundation that works through the tough issues because that is the

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way to deal with the differences that we have with the blacks in America.

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And I think with the Nazis, they went back and paid and paid and paid and we're going to

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do the same thing.

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We're going to have to pay.

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This is the first time we do reparations.

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It opens the door to getting back to the Civil War, getting whatever, whoever we left behind.

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You know, and that's clearly what the precedent we left, was left behind by the Nazis, was make

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sure you do it right.

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And if you have to go back again, do it over and keep meaning until you're sure you have

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remedied the wrong.

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Yeah.

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I guess I see what you mean.

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So you sort of advocate using that as a model kind of thing.

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Well, yeah.

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Okay.

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Animal.

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I think that this really does, as you've already mentioned, indigenous rights and indigenous

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reparations.

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I know that that's another book, but that's got to come close on the heels of anything that

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comes from this, though, surely.

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Sure.

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They're joined at the hip and there's just no way to do one.

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Just as we see that we did it for the Japanese, why are we leaving these other people out?

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Right?

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So the Native Americans in America have a very complicated situation to deal with.

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The indigenous of Africa have equally complicated situations to deal with.

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And they will need to be addressed.

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The Africans are meeting now and talking about it.

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How are we going to do this?

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So they're working through it.

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And they will look at what America does and say, well, we've got America doing the Japanese

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and the blacks and the Germans have addressed Jews.

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We really need to figure out our path here.

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Yeah.

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Again, a seismic shock across the globe, isn't it?

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Really?

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That's it, yeah.

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That's it.

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Yeah.

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Okay.

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So thinking about how this has worked so far in history, one of the figures that you've mentioned

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is Kelly House, a reparations activist.

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I mean, what drew you to her story?

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And why do you think she remains kind of relatively unknown in mainstream discussions about

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reparations or actually anything right now?

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Well, I'm wondering who's going to make the movie about Kelly because it is a story for

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the books and for the movies because she was an activist in the early 1900s who basically

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said, I'm going to collect money from the blacks and figure out how to create a nonprofit

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that works this issue until I am then then she was thrown in jail by the federal government

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for misleading blacks and thinking we'd ever be nice to them.

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A white guy was working in the same parallel path, nobody touched him because he's a white guy.

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We don't throw white people in jail.

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So it is a story made for Hollywood, I think, because here's a really nice lady who is

233
00:15:35,560 --> 00:15:37,380
doing a nice thing and what did we do?

234
00:15:37,380 --> 00:15:38,900
We threw her in jail.

235
00:15:38,900 --> 00:15:44,340
So they offered her an old folks home at one point and she said, that's not anything close

236
00:15:44,340 --> 00:15:45,340
to it.

237
00:15:45,340 --> 00:15:47,340
I want the cotton money that's left over from the Civil War.

238
00:15:47,340 --> 00:15:54,100
It literally was money ready to be paid, but she couldn't get her hands on it.

239
00:15:54,100 --> 00:15:55,100
Wow.

240
00:15:55,100 --> 00:15:56,100
Okay, yeah, that is a story.

241
00:15:56,100 --> 00:15:57,540
I mean, I'm not aware of her.

242
00:15:57,540 --> 00:16:01,100
So that'd be quite interesting to look at.

243
00:16:01,100 --> 00:16:05,740
Not to write the screenplay of course, but just to think about it.

244
00:16:05,740 --> 00:16:10,940
So the book also touches on the politics of memory.

245
00:16:10,940 --> 00:16:15,060
Who kind of gets recognized as victims in history and who doesn't?

246
00:16:15,060 --> 00:16:19,460
I think you've mentioned the kind of why the Japanese, but no one else, right?

247
00:16:19,460 --> 00:16:21,860
Or the inter-Japanese and no one else.

248
00:16:21,860 --> 00:16:27,900
I mean, do you think that America has fundamentally failed to reckon with the legacy of Jim Crowe

249
00:16:27,900 --> 00:16:28,900
and racial violence?

250
00:16:28,900 --> 00:16:30,900
Do you think that's what it comes down to?

251
00:16:30,900 --> 00:16:33,780
I think, yes, because it's such a big issue.

252
00:16:33,780 --> 00:16:34,780
Okay.

253
00:16:34,780 --> 00:16:38,340
It's a really hard one to get your arms around.

254
00:16:38,340 --> 00:16:44,540
We gave money to the Japanese and immediately there was HR 40 proposed by John Connors to

255
00:16:44,540 --> 00:16:46,420
take a look at our issues.

256
00:16:46,420 --> 00:16:50,700
We've taken 40 years and done very little of them in a few committee hearings to look at those

257
00:16:50,700 --> 00:16:51,700
issues.

258
00:16:51,700 --> 00:16:56,340
So I do think it's time to have a reckoning about this very big problem of our injustice

259
00:16:56,340 --> 00:17:00,380
to this group of people based on the color of their skin.

260
00:17:00,380 --> 00:17:02,580
What the hell was going on there?

261
00:17:02,580 --> 00:17:05,660
Well, I think we need to come to grips with it.

262
00:17:05,660 --> 00:17:10,860
It was a racial crime that we need to do something about.

263
00:17:10,860 --> 00:17:11,860
Yeah.

264
00:17:11,860 --> 00:17:13,860
I understand what you mean.

265
00:17:13,860 --> 00:17:18,980
I think it's, I think as a lawyer, I can see where you're coming from, right?

266
00:17:18,980 --> 00:17:23,660
Because you're kind of like that being literally black and white about it.

267
00:17:23,660 --> 00:17:25,620
In other words, it was a crime.

268
00:17:25,620 --> 00:17:28,740
So we need to sort it out, right?

269
00:17:28,740 --> 00:17:34,180
It's so nuanced, so surely in terms of, and because there's no particular law right now,

270
00:17:34,180 --> 00:17:38,900
you can't be guided by, as you know, as we were talking about earlier on, by precedent.

271
00:17:38,900 --> 00:17:45,620
I mean, you've got an issue where a whole group of people were treated not as people for

272
00:17:45,620 --> 00:17:48,740
several hundred years or a couple of hundred years.

273
00:17:48,740 --> 00:17:54,740
And so the legacy and the history of that just sort of kind of moves forward.

274
00:17:54,740 --> 00:18:00,300
And it always seems to me that it's one of those things where, you know, asking that country,

275
00:18:00,300 --> 00:18:06,820
any country, if you like, who stops slavery at that stage to immediately change their whole

276
00:18:06,820 --> 00:18:10,380
viewpoint, generational viewpoint is always difficult.

277
00:18:10,380 --> 00:18:13,380
And unfortunately, that's just what's happened, isn't it?

278
00:18:13,380 --> 00:18:18,020
Where it's the legacy of that is continuing, continuing, continuing, but doing the thing

279
00:18:18,020 --> 00:18:21,620
all the time, which is why you probably think it's just the right time for things to happen,

280
00:18:21,620 --> 00:18:22,620
right?

281
00:18:22,620 --> 00:18:27,620
Yeah, it's clearly, a lot of my friends have told me, well, that Trump, he is the most racist

282
00:18:27,620 --> 00:18:28,620
guy ever.

283
00:18:28,620 --> 00:18:31,260
And I think that makes him the perfect person.

284
00:18:31,260 --> 00:18:33,740
He's the least religious person and religious people love him.

285
00:18:33,740 --> 00:18:39,700
So I think we probably could have a similar thing go on here that we got the guy who is well

286
00:18:39,700 --> 00:18:42,700
positioned to bring a dialogue.

287
00:18:42,700 --> 00:18:47,500
It's not going to be end of the dialogue, but it will be the dialogue that needs to happen

288
00:18:47,500 --> 00:18:48,500
in America.

289
00:18:48,500 --> 00:18:51,260
And he's already triggering it because he's doing racist things.

290
00:18:51,260 --> 00:19:00,060
So he will have to have say in our 250th birthday, we're going to do something really big

291
00:19:00,060 --> 00:19:03,980
for the people that we've been really bad to.

292
00:19:03,980 --> 00:19:05,740
And it's his choice.

293
00:19:05,740 --> 00:19:10,660
He can either take this banner that's been handed to him or he can hand it off to the next

294
00:19:10,660 --> 00:19:15,660
guy who's got a better Congress to work with or whatever he needs to get the thing done

295
00:19:15,660 --> 00:19:21,740
because it's clearly a tailor-made, Trumpian solution that is sitting there waiting to be

296
00:19:21,740 --> 00:19:28,540
picked up and waved around and put your name on it and do a deal and get her done, right?

297
00:19:28,540 --> 00:19:30,540
Well, we do it.

298
00:19:30,540 --> 00:19:35,260
I can't say it's a better than 50/50 chance and I'm a very optimistic person.

299
00:19:35,260 --> 00:19:36,260
Yeah.

300
00:19:36,260 --> 00:19:39,980
Well, it's interesting to think about that, isn't it?

301
00:19:39,980 --> 00:19:44,180
Because you can, from one point of view, from the optics point of view, I can really see

302
00:19:44,180 --> 00:19:48,940
him going for it because of course that gets him the headlines, gets him, you know, not

303
00:19:48,940 --> 00:19:53,340
so much the votes I guess for him, but you know, it gets him his historical legacy, doesn't

304
00:19:53,340 --> 00:19:54,340
it?

305
00:19:54,340 --> 00:19:57,940
Or another one, another wrong on the historical legacy.

306
00:19:57,940 --> 00:20:01,980
So I can see where, you know, it would appeal.

307
00:20:01,980 --> 00:20:07,540
And as you say, we like to make a deal, likes to mix things up, that makes things up a bit.

308
00:20:07,540 --> 00:20:08,540
So yeah.

309
00:20:08,540 --> 00:20:11,540
You don't want to leave it to somebody else.

310
00:20:11,540 --> 00:20:12,540
I'll tell you that.

311
00:20:12,540 --> 00:20:17,900
So if he can do something to stop Gavin Newsom and his tracks on the reparations movement

312
00:20:17,900 --> 00:20:21,260
that Gavin Newsom is leading, he will do that.

313
00:20:21,260 --> 00:20:26,100
And as you pointed out, that won't be the end of the story because these people who have

314
00:20:26,100 --> 00:20:31,900
been shut down and are not going to sleep long on the issue of what they could do about reparations.

315
00:20:31,900 --> 00:20:32,900
Yeah.

316
00:20:32,900 --> 00:20:38,740
So you mentioned that reparations, you know, could potentially include families affected

317
00:20:38,740 --> 00:20:43,700
by lynching across different ethnic groups, including, what, Hispanics, Asians, you know,

318
00:20:43,700 --> 00:20:48,140
was broadening the framework beyond black Americans to deliberate attempt to create a sort

319
00:20:48,140 --> 00:20:50,700
of wider political support for the argument, do you think?

320
00:20:50,700 --> 00:20:55,940
Well, I do believe that when Trump was elected, he was elected and he thanked the blacks

321
00:20:55,940 --> 00:20:58,620
and Hispanics of America.

322
00:20:58,620 --> 00:21:05,980
And they were lynched and lynched in hundreds of people that are not included on the National

323
00:21:05,980 --> 00:21:10,940
Memorial for Peace and Justice, which are hanging columns, recording every lynched person.

324
00:21:10,940 --> 00:21:15,780
It's a wonderful tribute to the history of lynching in our country.

325
00:21:15,780 --> 00:21:17,940
It's based in Montgomery, Alabama.

326
00:21:17,940 --> 00:21:22,580
I do think they're, the lynching issues are something that is much easier for the lot of

327
00:21:22,580 --> 00:21:26,220
them to get its hand around because it's a wrongful death claim never made.

328
00:21:26,220 --> 00:21:31,220
And the statual imitations was prevented from happening because, for example, when Tulsa

329
00:21:31,220 --> 00:21:36,060
was destroyed, the little city of Greenwood was bombed from the air.

330
00:21:36,060 --> 00:21:41,460
They did not let those people forever go to court.

331
00:21:41,460 --> 00:21:44,180
They said, nope, nope, you can't come to court.

332
00:21:44,180 --> 00:21:47,460
And only now when they've let them come into the court, now the courts are saying, well,

333
00:21:47,460 --> 00:21:48,860
the statual imitations is run.

334
00:21:48,860 --> 00:21:53,540
I'd think that's clearly an unjust legal opinion that has come out of our courts that needs

335
00:21:53,540 --> 00:21:57,700
to be fixed on, can only be fixed by our government.

336
00:21:57,700 --> 00:22:03,620
Yeah, I suppose the statute of limitations, as you were saying earlier on, wasn't it?

337
00:22:03,620 --> 00:22:07,860
You know, really thinking about how far back to go as well and that sort of thing.

338
00:22:07,860 --> 00:22:18,420
But, you know, the question I think there is, if you're talking about generational, generational

339
00:22:18,420 --> 00:22:21,340
times, I mean, that's the issue, isn't it?

340
00:22:21,340 --> 00:22:24,900
Really, I'm thinking, okay, well, let's move on from that then.

341
00:22:24,900 --> 00:22:28,380
Some readers, they'll inevitably see the title alone.

342
00:22:28,380 --> 00:22:31,220
And just assume that the book is partisan or ideological.

343
00:22:31,220 --> 00:22:36,900
Do you think that this primarily is a, or do you feel that this is a political book or

344
00:22:36,900 --> 00:22:40,740
an historical book, maybe, or maybe even a policy proposal, is that what you're getting

345
00:22:40,740 --> 00:22:41,740
at?

346
00:22:41,740 --> 00:22:44,220
Well, I'm certainly proposing that the government should do something.

347
00:22:44,220 --> 00:22:50,060
So I'd call it a policy proposal and it's something that really has the teeth that they need

348
00:22:50,060 --> 00:22:55,460
to deal with because I've given them the preemption issue, which no one else talked about in any

349
00:22:55,460 --> 00:22:56,460
of the literature.

350
00:22:56,460 --> 00:23:00,540
I give them the expo's factor clause, which is I pointed out as Swiss cheese, but it's

351
00:23:00,540 --> 00:23:04,620
a good start to get past that civil war problem.

352
00:23:04,620 --> 00:23:07,140
And they're well positioned now to move on it.

353
00:23:07,140 --> 00:23:09,180
They've got the polls that they needed.

354
00:23:09,180 --> 00:23:15,740
The same polls that were running when Ronald Reagan moved 25% are tracking now, they're going

355
00:23:15,740 --> 00:23:21,060
to be up over a majority in my lifetime.

356
00:23:21,060 --> 00:23:26,820
And the time is right now to do something about this 40 years after the other two and a half

357
00:23:26,820 --> 00:23:31,100
billion went out, we're going to do something probably measured in the trillions, but it's

358
00:23:31,100 --> 00:23:35,980
going to have to get done and it's going to be done by this Congress, the next Congress,

359
00:23:35,980 --> 00:23:38,420
one of these Congresses here.

360
00:23:38,420 --> 00:23:43,780
They'll be able to give us the solution to a very difficult problem the Americans faced.

361
00:23:43,780 --> 00:23:47,860
And I think it's, it'd be nice if they did it on their 250th birthday, but maybe they have

362
00:23:47,860 --> 00:23:50,220
to wait for the 51st of the list.

363
00:23:50,220 --> 00:23:53,500
He said, yeah, that's true.

364
00:23:53,500 --> 00:23:58,700
You know, I just thinking as soon as you mentioned trillions, it gets me a bit sort of,

365
00:23:58,700 --> 00:24:04,060
I just then I start thinking why you've actually suggested a foundation because how can

366
00:24:04,060 --> 00:24:10,420
you manage that kind of thing if that happened, right?

367
00:24:10,420 --> 00:24:11,420
I love this one.

368
00:24:11,420 --> 00:24:12,420
Pandemonium, wouldn't it?

369
00:24:12,420 --> 00:24:13,420
Can you imagine?

370
00:24:13,420 --> 00:24:20,300
I can imagine it would be a very grand thing that would attract the attention of California

371
00:24:20,300 --> 00:24:25,460
in New York and all the foundations that are donating to other process would say, well,

372
00:24:25,460 --> 00:24:30,700
this is the only game in town and they have a lot of money and they are doing good things.

373
00:24:30,700 --> 00:24:32,300
It doesn't have to just be money.

374
00:24:32,300 --> 00:24:34,020
I mean, money is definitely a part of it.

375
00:24:34,020 --> 00:24:41,340
Cash payments, but opportunities zones, better laws, protecting blacks, any number of things

376
00:24:41,340 --> 00:24:46,580
that we are falling down on could be fixed here and give them what they need.

377
00:24:46,580 --> 00:24:53,500
As a fact, actually, I was sorry, I was going to say, actually, that's a really good point.

378
00:24:53,500 --> 00:24:57,420
I'm glad you brought that up because we've only really assumed we're talking about cash

379
00:24:57,420 --> 00:24:58,820
money, right?

380
00:24:58,820 --> 00:25:02,660
So what are what other ideas have you mentioned in the book that people can sort of chew

381
00:25:02,660 --> 00:25:03,660
on?

382
00:25:03,660 --> 00:25:06,100
Donald Trump has been big on opportunities zones.

383
00:25:06,100 --> 00:25:10,860
Now, there are people who would say, that's just gentrification and it is complicated, but

384
00:25:10,860 --> 00:25:12,740
it's necessary.

385
00:25:12,740 --> 00:25:18,140
It's part of what we have to do to bring around a new world where people are justly treated.

386
00:25:18,140 --> 00:25:24,420
And I do think that Donald Trump, because of his deal-making side, would appreciate that

387
00:25:24,420 --> 00:25:28,940
there's a mix of different things we're talking about in this reparations arena.

388
00:25:28,940 --> 00:25:35,700
And there's opportunities that can be created under capitalist systems that could give people

389
00:25:35,700 --> 00:25:41,540
the opportunity to really be part of our capitalist society in a real way, not sports

390
00:25:41,540 --> 00:25:47,820
and entertainment and other aspects, but really bring them into the world of capitalism

391
00:25:47,820 --> 00:25:50,660
and see what they can do.

392
00:25:50,660 --> 00:25:51,660
Yeah.

393
00:25:51,660 --> 00:25:53,620
Was that the town you mentioned?

394
00:25:53,620 --> 00:25:54,620
Greenwood?

395
00:25:54,620 --> 00:25:55,620
The one that was?

396
00:25:55,620 --> 00:25:56,620
Yeah.

397
00:25:56,620 --> 00:26:02,620
Historically, that that was, from what I know of that, that was a bit of a nightmare, wasn't

398
00:26:02,620 --> 00:26:03,620
it?

399
00:26:03,620 --> 00:26:05,740
And you mentioned gentrification clearly.

400
00:26:05,740 --> 00:26:08,740
So it could be tricky again, couldn't it?

401
00:26:08,740 --> 00:26:14,380
Yes, it could get very difficult, but I do see a chance to bring around a new world where

402
00:26:14,380 --> 00:26:17,300
people are justly treated and justly given.

403
00:26:17,300 --> 00:26:25,540
But just even if you look at housing in America, we have been so bad about blacks and housing

404
00:26:25,540 --> 00:26:31,980
because we didn't give them loans as farmers, we prevented them from getting mortgages necessary

405
00:26:31,980 --> 00:26:38,060
and necessary locations for houses while our wealth was building their wealth was not.

406
00:26:38,060 --> 00:26:42,740
And there's a ten times difference in our wealth between white and black and America caused

407
00:26:42,740 --> 00:26:48,220
mostly by the way we dealt with housing.

408
00:26:48,220 --> 00:26:52,540
So we really need to fix this and it's not an easy thing to fix because people like to

409
00:26:52,540 --> 00:26:56,860
have their home equity, you know, they don't want you to go after that.

410
00:26:56,860 --> 00:26:59,100
Yeah, that's true, that's true.

411
00:26:59,100 --> 00:27:01,660
No, well Thomas, we're running out of time here.

412
00:27:01,660 --> 00:27:04,140
So we could talk for hours.

413
00:27:04,140 --> 00:27:06,140
I could talk for hours.

414
00:27:06,140 --> 00:27:07,940
Yeah, yeah, right.

415
00:27:07,940 --> 00:27:13,140
No, I find this fascinating, you know, social history, reparations and fairness, it's just

416
00:27:13,140 --> 00:27:14,140
something.

417
00:27:14,140 --> 00:27:20,740
But anyway, before we bore or I bought to really people, finally, when readers finished

418
00:27:20,740 --> 00:27:22,060
the book, okay?

419
00:27:22,060 --> 00:27:24,860
And to you most hope that they reconsider, okay?

420
00:27:24,860 --> 00:27:30,340
Is it America's history, the modern political system, or the way that reparations are discussed

421
00:27:30,340 --> 00:27:32,700
in public debates?

422
00:27:32,700 --> 00:27:36,980
Well, I believe that the world is coming around this issue, that's why the polls are moving

423
00:27:36,980 --> 00:27:37,980
up.

424
00:27:37,980 --> 00:27:42,660
So someone will read my book if they join the next round of people who are saying, okay,

425
00:27:42,660 --> 00:27:47,420
I know I shouldn't pay for what my grandfather did, but boy, this is a real problem.

426
00:27:47,420 --> 00:27:50,100
And I really think we should do something.

427
00:27:50,100 --> 00:27:54,700
There's going to be a lot of people who are waking up to this issue.

428
00:27:54,700 --> 00:27:59,020
It's at 25% now, it'll be 50% by 2040.

429
00:27:59,020 --> 00:28:05,420
And I do think if my book can help move that process forward a little bit, it's done its

430
00:28:05,420 --> 00:28:06,420
job.

431
00:28:06,420 --> 00:28:11,540
And I do, I praise the people around the world who are doing work on reparations.

432
00:28:11,540 --> 00:28:13,020
I'm not trying to be the best at it.

433
00:28:13,020 --> 00:28:19,220
I'm just helping them get their tail to all because it's really a big problem that America

434
00:28:19,220 --> 00:28:23,060
has yet to ever deal with.

435
00:28:23,060 --> 00:28:24,060
Yeah.

436
00:28:24,060 --> 00:28:29,820
Well, I can see that, you know, obviously, churches or universities, corporations, you know,

437
00:28:29,820 --> 00:28:32,420
that they sort of, that they do have a part to play as well.

438
00:28:32,420 --> 00:28:37,700
I mean, how do you think that they could actually help, as you say, you know, to get people

439
00:28:37,700 --> 00:28:40,500
used to the idea, I guess, and to push it forward?

440
00:28:40,500 --> 00:28:42,620
Well, they've already been doing that.

441
00:28:42,620 --> 00:28:43,940
And they're going to keep doing it.

442
00:28:43,940 --> 00:28:47,780
The federal law, the pre-empts of states, doesn't touch anything going on in a search

443
00:28:47,780 --> 00:28:48,780
or a foundation.

444
00:28:48,780 --> 00:28:53,860
And those folks will have to realize there's a new world, there's a federally-primptive

445
00:28:53,860 --> 00:28:54,860
law.

446
00:28:54,860 --> 00:28:57,060
So we're not dealing with the California folks or the New York folks.

447
00:28:57,060 --> 00:29:00,300
We're dealing with the Trump Foundation.

448
00:29:00,300 --> 00:29:03,020
And that's where they're going to have to work.

449
00:29:03,020 --> 00:29:09,300
And that actually might be the way that man gets a, get out of jail free card because if

450
00:29:09,300 --> 00:29:13,900
he can create a foundation that actually attracts the attention of good thinking, right

451
00:29:13,900 --> 00:29:20,300
thinking people, to get a good thing done, he will have burnished his legacy as he would

452
00:29:20,300 --> 00:29:26,060
like to do, I think, and given us something we could thank him for, that he's put his name

453
00:29:26,060 --> 00:29:28,380
on something that is getting the job done.

454
00:29:28,380 --> 00:29:29,860
Well, we'll see.

455
00:29:29,860 --> 00:29:30,860
Yeah, we'll see.

456
00:29:30,860 --> 00:29:34,900
I think it's going to be fantastic to think about this.

457
00:29:34,900 --> 00:29:39,780
I mean, yeah, the changes across the globe would be something, as we discussed earlier

458
00:29:39,780 --> 00:29:40,780
on.

459
00:29:40,780 --> 00:29:44,140
Thomas Reddick, we're out of time, I'm so sorry.

460
00:29:44,140 --> 00:29:49,020
But listen, thank you for joining me in this conversation and viewers, listeners, thank

461
00:29:49,020 --> 00:29:50,500
you for watching or listening.

462
00:29:50,500 --> 00:29:52,940
It's fascinating conversation, isn't it?

463
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Let us know in the comments below what you think we could and would and should happen,

464
00:29:57,980 --> 00:29:58,980
okay?

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So really, whether people agree with the arguments in time for Trump's patriotic reparations

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or strongly disagree with them, your book, Thomas, is clearly a book that's intended

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to provoke debates about history.

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So let's get people involved in that.

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And let's think about the accountability and the unresolved questions surrounding race

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and justice in America, but elsewhere too, right?

471
00:30:21,140 --> 00:30:25,180
So listeners, viewers, if you've enjoyed this conversation, don't forget to subscribe,

472
00:30:25,180 --> 00:30:29,420
leave a review and share the episode and get the discussion going.

473
00:30:29,420 --> 00:30:33,540
You can find details of Thomas Reddick's book in the description down below and until next

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time.

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Thanks for listening to author conversations with me, Chris Dams and Thomas Reddick.

476
00:30:38,180 --> 00:30:40,740
Thank you for joining us to talk about your book.

477
00:30:40,740 --> 00:30:41,740
Thank you.

478
00:30:41,740 --> 00:30:45,380
I really enjoy this conversation as it's, it's, you know, go on for hours, but we do need

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00:30:45,380 --> 00:30:46,380
to end here.

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00:30:46,380 --> 00:30:48,860
It's like, we really could.

481
00:30:48,860 --> 00:30:49,860
Exactly right.

482
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Thomas, it's been fantastic and I hope to see you again soon.

483
00:30:52,940 --> 00:30:57,420
Yes, thank you, sir, and I appreciate the chance to talk about this book.

484
00:30:57,420 --> 00:30:58,420
Thanks.

485
00:30:58,420 --> 00:30:59,420
Take care.

486
00:30:59,420 --> 00:31:02,260
Have a good day.

487
00:31:02,260 --> 00:31:06,580
If you enjoyed this conversation, you can watch more author conversations here.

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[Music]

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(dramatic music)