Subject to Change: What We’ve Lost in the Digital Age | Tom Potosnak

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Hi and welcome to author conversations. As usual, I'm Chris Dabbs and you know what,

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I've got a question for you. Can you remember what life was like before smartphones,

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social media and constant notifications? I could just about do that myself, I gotta say,

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but well, okay, I can do it a lot, right? But last year's Toronto's day just about. But anyhow,

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yet I do remember life like that and a man is really interesting seeing the world today.

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And my guest today is storyteller singer, songwriter, anti-humourist Tom Potosnak,

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whose author of subject to change. Now subject to change is part memoir, part collection of stories

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and songs and the book reflects on growing up in a very different world while exploring

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experiences that remain universal even now. So Tom, welcome to author conversations. I mean,

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I could go on for ages about how bad it was in the olden days without phones and things,

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but I guess you don't agree with that. So what inspired you to write subject to change? And

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how come you describe it as I thought this was quite funny? Sort of a biography.

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Well, first of all, yeah, I remember obviously those days I grew up in those days and they weren't

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all bad. I mean, it was okay. In fact, some many ways it was very good, but what really

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inspired me to write this was I'd been a storyteller for many many years, a singer, a songwriter,

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I've done in many shows and I tend to lean towards trying to find kind of the bigger picture

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in regards to whatever topic it is that I'm singing about or talking about. And

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having grown up in those days and seeing the kind of the analog era if you ever are in the

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and now we'll be at the digital page and seeing all of their differences. When I would write some of

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my songs or tell some of our stories, it would you would see Mizzip. Those were the sorts of things I

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would gravitate to GSU from true or different then. And this was how they were different. This is

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the way they are now. That necessarily make a bad, but there is certainly a difference. And I wanted

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to communicate that because that's kind of what I've done over the years with my stories and songs

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and shows. So you're saying that it's a bill. Well, but the world is different, right? And I think the

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way that you've written your books different as well because you've built it around your story

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songs and shows and your musings and things. So how can we chose to do that format instead of writing

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like a traditional memoir? Because obviously most people were just going about, "Oh yeah, I remember

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when I was 14, I couldn't do this, I couldn't do that." But now they can, but I think you've chosen

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quite an interesting way to do it. Well, you know, first of all, when I call this book a sort of

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biography, what I mean is it's not my life story. That would be boring. I invented nothing,

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I haven't solved any international crisis, I haven't learned any super bowls. Oh come on, song crack on.

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Honestly. It would be interesting to talk to those names, a story doesn't work. To me,

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that would be a tradition of memoir, I think. What a sort of biography is, it is stories from my life,

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about life as opposed to the story of my life. And I've been, as I said earlier, storyteller

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and musician and I do these one-man shows that we're doing for the last 16, 17 years, where what I did was,

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it's got a funny actually, I remember telling my daughter in that line, "You know, I'm going to write

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a one-man show and it's going to be part-cure, part-sauve stories." And they said, "Yes, sure you are."

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And I used to take the dog for a walk and the morning and out of up a stuck and I could hold him

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it, write it out or type it out and lo and behold, I put together a show of midlife chronicles

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because I was a midlife there. And it went pretty well. People enjoyed it. They enjoyed stories. They

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enjoyed the song. Since then, I put together three different one-man shows that, and variations on

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the theme are three years. And I do it when I can because I was running a business for a lot of years,

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so I had to weave it in between life and work and what-have-you. But as I say, people enjoyed him.

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And what they would say to me is, "Well, honey, you turn this into a book or something, because you can

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only do so many songs and so many stories at a 90-minute show." So I said, "You know, that would be a

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good thing to try to do to be able to expand me and add more stories, more songs. But I wanted

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to make it a theme as opposed to just a collection of stories and songs that were one-offs.

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So I made it into, guess it's a memoir, but it also has sort of a theme that runs through it

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about kind of the search for meaning and likes and significance and those sorts of things. So

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the reason I did it that way was because that's the way I've done it over the years with the audience

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or its stage. It just lent itself to that. There is also a very unique way to do it. People

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say, "Wow, listen to kind of crew. You get songs that you get stored to it. So let's work it out."

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No, no, no, no. Okay, that's an interesting way to look at it. I mean, I love the way to take the dog out

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and then you know, you're writing at the same time, right? So multitasking. But I mean, so what is the theme

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then that, you know, sort of like puts the connection through to people of a certain age, as we

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would say, the hey, who are readers and the audience of the book? What theme connects them, do you think?

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Well, when the book starts out, I'd honk about a seer year in high school. First day,

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when, and this literature teacher, who I did not know, comes in, shuffles in and says, "What does

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it all mean?" and he plops down in the chair. And he did this every day for a few days and finally

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some kid from back from the last year, old out his act was, "What's going to be on a test?" And he stopped

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he stopped saying, "What is it all mean?" But we all kind of figured out that, you know, obviously we'd

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have any answers for this guy. And we figured, "Well, he's probably in the middle of his, you know,

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midlife crisis somewhere and he's either going to get it together or, you know, hop on a Harley and

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get a leather jacket and ride off into the Jersey Sunside. It was similarly frustrated, taffic,

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cheery lady, but he didn't. He made it. But my bend is that it's just some reason. That question always

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kind of stuck with me. What is it all mean?" And then, when I was in the, the arm, four days into

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the arm, the first day report for duty. And nothing for me to do by course didn't start for six weeks.

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They say, "Hey, go to your bachelor officer, brooders. Come back Monday." So, okay, I'm walking down

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the street, a big class, a uniform, feeling on spiffy. And all of a sudden this, uh,

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green sedan screech to a halt, when the guy jumps out, runs screaming towards me.

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I'm a tenant. Do you know who's in that vehicle? I'm like, "Well, no, I mean, I know who wasn't

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at the Captain Ork, because his name tagged right in front of me." He said, "That's the commanding

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general of Ford Benjamin Harris, a Udor-Brendered, Crop or Military Currency, and the former of

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the salute of the general's vehicle past its buy." Well, I must have missed that class, where

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I was, you see, because I didn't know what I was doing. He sent me on my way, and I honest to God,

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the rest of the way to my quarters, I must have saluted every green vehicle I saw just to take no

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chances. I'm sure there were a lot of, you know, privates and sergeants running around, "Hey,

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look at the goofy lieutenant saluting me, you know?" But anyway, I know this is a long story, but it

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kind of sets up how this book sort of came to be. I get into my quarters there, and I clot my stuff

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down, and I sit down on a cigar, and I said, "Cut, is it all means?" Basically, what have I got myself

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into? And I laughed, and I thought of my teacher. Next day, I snuck off to the rec center,

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I rode a guitar from the rec center, made sure, keep an eye out for Captain Ork or

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Ever Protector with the Generous Vehicle, made it back, and wrote the lyrics, and I wrote it

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this song, "The Search Cut Us All." So, that kind of got these going, and the theme of the book,

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it starts out with, "What does it all mean?" And as I went through the book and the stories,

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the stories, they're some that are just playing funny, but there are others that have a larger meaning,

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and it's about personal connections, it's about relationships, it's my, it's my opus, who maybe feel like

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I was somebody special growing up, in a generation where parents certainly were her friends,

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and it's about friendships, these stories, they're all supposed to have that theme that runs through

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up. And as I roll through all this, I get towards the end of the book and I ask again,

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"What does it all mean?" And I, basically, they were clues as you go along through the book, it's about

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personal relationships, fulfilling relationships, loving relationships, it's about connection, I think

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that connection was a lot easier to have in the pre-digital age, and that's part of when I talk

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about this book, if you've heard about cell phone, I think those people can understand that,

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and recognize that that's something that's kind of lacking in our culture today.

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Because of it, I hope that there is.

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Yeah, yeah, totally. Yeah, I mean, without getting for all sort of like political and all that sort of

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jazz, I mean, I think that the social media thing and digital communications and things has

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changed the world like completely, I mean, don't forget me wrong, I use internet for business and

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what have you, but I'm from the UK and we're following Australia, who has banned social media for

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under 16-year-olds, yeah, so we've recently announced that, and this art pror, absolutely,

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art pror, from the youngsters, as you can imagine, because they think they've been missing out

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of something, you know, and of course, they will, right, because they've grown up, as you say, where

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where parents are friends, and they're helping them to use their devices to do whatever it is that

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they want, right? So no, I can see what you'll say, and I can definitely see that the audience would

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be on board with what you're saying as well, yeah, I think unless you have gone through this,

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you just don't realise, do you know, what it was like before, and it wasn't bad, that's the point

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to make, isn't it, right? My wife and I were talking about this yesterday, actually, you know,

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we got on with stuff, right? I'm not saying they don't, but you know what I mean, it's different.

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So talking of getting on with stuff as well, right? You mentioned that you had to make sure that

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Captain Orden catch you, of course, but you got yourself a guitar from the rec center, which is

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great, right? Because, is that when you started playing? Because, you know, you've woven music,

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quite interestingly, through your book, right? Through all those QR codes that are in there.

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So I love the idea of that, and you're song lyrics. So how did you decide which stories

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kind of deserve the song, or did it work the other way around? Well, I, but I first wrote this,

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it ended up being 40 chapters, right? Sounds like 40 chapters makes for a long book, a

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drumbery sure, which by the way is a quick thing because I also think with a limited tension span,

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the treatment seemed to have pushed the stories being short, or what it is that sawdust is to work,

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it seemed to appreciate it. But I started out with 53 chapters, and I, you know, at 13 more than

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an hour and a half. So I had to edit because I wanted to stay tight with the theme, and again,

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you know, the stories that either had some cure in them that were, they weren't all heavy stories,

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but they were, they had, they were funny, and then there are other stories that had little,

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little gaps to them. But I didn't want to be read enough because I realized I'm a piece of that,

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got a couple of songs here first, it's about my college years. A song, you know, when I went off

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to school, I was from New Jersey, I ended up in Pennsylvania, and it was a very different

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sort of world. I was at a small farm town in a Cumberland Valley at Pennsylvania, it was beautiful.

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So I had written a few songs around that, but then I had another song about the steel mills in

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Allentown, Pennsylvania, and guys that went to schools, his fathers were laid off, and they had to be

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schooled. But you know, I didn't want to go to the well one too many times with the college years,

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pets of A-Mistories, so I asked them out, I've got to come down. So I wanted to keep it, I didn't want to

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start wandering off, it's your wilderness with this thing. So I really just went through and

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sent up to which songs are essential, which stories are essential, and also what songs do I really like

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that I think people would enjoy. So there's a combination of sorts. I don't know, yeah, great,

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well again, that makes sense. I think a lot of us, we write books or whatever, and you end up with

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something at home, you know, the answer. Sorry about that, just a bit of a technical thing there,

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no, it's all good, don't worry. Yeah, people end up with massive tomes, don't they? You know,

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with hundreds of pages, and then the editing is a nightmare. But yeah, I think that looking down

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at it and making sure that you've got exactly what you want in the book makes sense, right? So I mean,

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humour for instance is something that runs throughout the book, and I could see, obviously, you're a

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humorous guy, and that's why you're a humorist. But why do you think that laughter is, I guess, one of

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the ways to talk about, you know, aging and life changes and how things change all the time?

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Well, I, first of all, I was two things I seriously enjoy, very much, one is to laugh,

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my love calaf, and two, I enjoy making people laugh, and humor is, it's the left turn, it's the thing

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you don't see coming, and it just, when they call it a sense of humor, that's what it is. It's up, it

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hits you, and it's funny, and you enjoy it, and that's a great feel. So I've always enjoyed humor. I,

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I come from a family of people who are fairly witty, especially my uncle, my mom as well. They just

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would come out with things, you'd say something of "and", you would hit you, and it made you laugh,

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but oftentimes there was a point there, and it's all times easier to receive something,

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when it comes in a funny way, or in a humorous way, in a light-hearted way, and I think that in this

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book, when I talk about growing up, and you know, there were some, we all have our struggles or

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challenges, we grow up, and in the book, I talk a lot about the way my parents were, my parents were

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tough, you know, I tell a story about when I was a kid in the second grade, whatever, I used to

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cry when I get to school sometimes, and I make the joke, no nowadays it calls separation at the time,

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you know, a backpack thing would call it a "baby", and they call, they call them as the

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ace of semi-todd the nurse, so I could get it together, or one day I go to the nurse and they say,

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Tommy go to the principal's office, and they go there, who's there, my mother, and my mother worked,

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she'd rare, that was those days that she had two or your parents, and my mother said to the principal,

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where she said, "hey could you talk to Tommy, you be crying in school, let's see what's up?"

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so she said, "can I have a word alone with him?" he says, "sharp" and she sits me down, looks

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in the eye and says, "tommy, I don't know what you're crying about, but you gotta cut it out,

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because if you don't and they make you leap work one more time, I'm gonna get fired,

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if I get fired, I'm not gonna have any money, and if we don't have any money, we're gonna start."

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I haven't cried since, and that's this February I tell in the show, and the point is,

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there have been people that have said, "qua humo was tough on you," or just other stories of the book

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that I tell, and I said, "well, yes, but no, um, and I kind of tell it with a bit of humor,

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because it's kind of softens the edges a little bit, it makes it more palatable and more fun,

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and you can make before you, I think, very effective even, keep."

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Well, and also, yeah, at the end of the day, it's the truth, right? So, you know,

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your mum's being blunt with you, but equally, you know, I mean, yeah, well, this is it, okay,

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so looking back at that and looking at now, what do you think the biggest differences between

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growing up before the internet and growing up today for these people, oh these people, you know what I mean,

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people. I think it's personal connection, it's, you know, when I was growing out, you,

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if you had a problem with solo, you'd talk to that, you were face to face, you could whatever

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what you'd have done it, or you didn't sit down on your basin that we've two angered little

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phones and start, you know, putting something on, you know, the Facebook or Instagram or Twitter or

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X, as it is now called, which we're always repudding up, but you were, it was only one way, you don't

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look people what tomorrow, you had personal relationships, and that was just the way it was, and

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the biggest change is now we have so many more opportunities to sit back, take pot shots,

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do whatever it is we feel like going without ever having a face of them, on a fact in the book,

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I make mention of this, I saw a mean that I thought was great, and I used this to the show, and he

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can get a ticket out, I say that, as a great American philosopher Mike Tyson, then I said, the problem

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with the end of the, like, paraphrase is that, you know, people get away with saying those about you

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without getting conscious of the face for it, you know, a little bit blunt, but, you know, that's kind of

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the difference is the separation, you know, I went out to dinner now, already though, and honestly,

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good, this me and my wife were sitting there, and I pointed to the table, a couple of tables, oh,

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family of five, parents, three kids, every one of them are, it felts, they weren't talking, they

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weren't interacting whatsoever, they were all doing whatever it is they were doing, that

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wrong thing. Now, at first of all, as a kid, we didn't go out for dinner very much, that's a big

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difference too, but I sure did, we put on these clothes, and we interact kid, you know, so that was

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a difference, that was, Neff Serra was having this better, Miss Warris, or it's different, but you

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would really do have to watch, I think, and be vigil that to not fall into this, you know, you just,

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you're into yourself, selfie obsessed culture had bought, could do a death, you couldn't,

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well, no, exactly, it's funny, because when I was growing up, I always used to say, if I went to,

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well, when I say growing up, when I was a bit older, say, in my, when he's whatever, if I was in

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a restaurant and I saw like an older couple who was sat there at their table, not talking to each

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other, for instance, I would think that that was very sad, and things like that, whereas now it's

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changed, or we, you know, my age, I agree with you, I look over and I see that no one's talking to

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each other and they're just doing this, and then when I pick up my phone to kind of do the same thing,

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I'm thinking, ah, I've got to stop it, but then I can't sit there with my wife not talking, right?

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So it's just, it is a bit of a minefield, but this is the whole point though, isn't it? Encounters,

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with everyday people is what we're talking about. So being able to talk to your wife, being able to

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go to the store and talk to somebody in the store, being able to walk down the street with your dog,

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and interact with people, who you might come across, right? So many of your stories, they're

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focusing on these kind of encounters, right? So what would attract you to those kind of normal

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situations, I guess? I, I, that's my nature, I think, and I've always been, you know, I, I had a lot of,

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I had two brothers, and, but I had a good number of, of awesome objects, and in fact, I was the 28

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for 30 walk first cousins, about one, 10, here, one at five, and my mother's side or family,

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care, I could read four, but we spent a lot of time with those people, and me being on the younger

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end, I was always fascinated by these people, they were like my heroes, you know, and my uncles,

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Charlie, tell these stories about this, about it, you know, my cousin, this, or that, and I always just

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gravitated towards kind of the, what does it all mean? Wow, that story, I'll go Charlie, he was talking

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about her, you know, here's a guy that was, you know, he grew up on our, working in coal mines, you know,

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he came to New York City and King of bus driver, you know, and just, I was always fascinated. So

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ordinary people, ordinary fainters, ordinary stories, it's a gold mine, it's just, there's so much there,

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and it was so interesting in what's out there that we ignore what's right here, and that's the stuff

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that's most important because these are the people that you interact with, these are the people you

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come from, so that was very fortunate, I think, in that regard to have all these people, and to be in

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the observer, hey, because we're the young one, they don't want to hear from, you know, and I get it,

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what do I have to say about some family people? You know, I was happy about this there for a laugh,

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you know, but I always just, each of you, I, joy be here actually, people, who's this great?

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Yeah, yeah, I'm always jealous actually when I see that, you know, I think in America it happens more

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often, where you have great family reunions, right, or family meet-elves every year or something,

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you know, like that, it's not something that we really do here, but, you know, I always think that

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big family is great, right, I'm very jealous when I hear that. So talking of interacting them,

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we're talking about interacting with family, we're talking about interacting with people in different

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age brackets as well, as you said, who wants to hear from the young one, right? But, so, so what do you

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hope that younger readers or that somebody can tell a younger person, what about them learning from

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the experiences that you share? What do you hope that they learn from that? Well, you know, in the book,

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what I hold in this, this, and very thankful in this way, when I'll do my shows,

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my daughter is 33. Notice I had to think for a second, okay, she said, and her generation of friends, they

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they grew up in the beginning, because the iPhone didn't come out to host that and she bore a lot of

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you too. So really, she kind of made it cruel without the heavy inference of that. But she, she will

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have people that she invites to these shows that enjoy the shows, enjoy the skills. I think they enjoy

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the differences, they find it kind of funny, that they also make some think that people have since

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many times, they enjoy your show because it makes me laugh, because it makes me think, and there's

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some poignant stuff in there. And I also do address, like phenomena, the differences. I have a song,

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I'll say, hey, which is about current, the way things are now, touching on cancel culture,

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in a lighthearted sort of way, but it kind of makes a point. I also talk about, you know, in the chapter

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do something, you know, do something, meaning be a positive influence. I say, you know, you,

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everybody's so focused on changing the word to be an influence or doing something so grand. Well,

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you know, something you could sit down in the cafe and have yourself a cup of coffee,

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a berry or something before, or you could look up onto the while, perhaps just spot an old friend,

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maybe you could smile at somebody and that just, you know, was what they needed with that boat.

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So these kind of little little bit of lessons, a little bit of things, I don't beat them over

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the head with it, but I like to think that some people do walk away with, you know, he's right. You

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know, maybe a little less on the knee and a little more on us is a good thing. And again, it's not

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going to change the role. Really getting the smile, a world. It's just changed somebody's day.

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And make you feel better as well, right? Absolutely. Where you do for others, you do for yourself.

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I mean, that's essentially true, true. And I think that's the thing. So, okay, the title of the book

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is subject to change, right? That seems to carry a lot of meaning because it's quite sort of ambiguous,

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isn't it? Really? But what does that phrase represent in your life and in the book then?

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Well, okay, my father, my parents used to rent a place when they were retired, down to the

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good church, you do Jerseyshire, a little bottom of a little, a few blocks on each. And I was down

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to this. My father was living with the Froucester Cancer 26 years. And he seemed to be doing okay.

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So summer, we're sitting out on the course just here and up. He wasn't a guy to talk about

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feelings and things. All the bad generation of heat repulsed on his thing. But just out of the blue,

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he said to me, "You know Tommy, I know I'm not going to look for it, but I do plan on hanging around

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and death, and in the meantime, I'm going to enjoy the time I have to have other boys and kids."

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And then he paused and he looked up. I get chills just telling it. He said, "But this isn't all there

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and I didn't say anything. Six months later, he was done. And after his funeral and going down to

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his and my mother and my hometown a few times, I took a ride around. I went by the places that

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meant something to be boy guy. And I realized, you know, how much it changed and the open the

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light of that saw. If these times I rely on the street sides, when I find myself around,

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the things I always remembered and he faces some places I always remembered any mortar that

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were so clear. And I kind of take it from the scruyard memories and they're all subject to change.

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Then I take it to the family to the backyard, family memories and I say, "Well, they're all subject

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to change. Then I go into getting older and health and so on. But the things throughout the song,

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and of course, is pretty sweet. Some things don't change. You're your old dear friends,

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true love, hope and faith and so on and glitter like you're sorry. Those are the rocks you cling to

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when the times get tough on the storms are raging. There are things that you hold on to.

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But most things for certain, if it left and stays the same, so you walk these core things into life.

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And that's the thing I feel tough about. The people don't have that foundation made

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that they used to. So the subject to change, they'd kind of wrap that up. Yeah, it was about going back

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to our home tab, seeing how things had changed and just thinking about that on a larger scale.

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But then also coming back to, okay, what remains? And that's some truth in the last light of the song.

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Old friends, true love, hope and faith always remain, never to change.

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That's very wise time. Everything is subject to change. You're quite right.

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Oh, no, second again. Sorry. Don't worry. Don't it's okay.

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Yeah, I mean, always, you know, this is the whole point, isn't it? I think once you realize and accept

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that things do change, then you can't actually get on with your own life, can't you? So Tom,

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we're running out of time, unfortunately, which is a real problem here. But it's such a shame.

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Because it sounds great, you know, and your life story is sounds fantastic from what you've said so far

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as well. And the book sounds great too. I can't wait to listen to more of the music. But what really

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gets me is when readers listen and read your book as well. What sort of feedback have you had from

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people? You know, I mean, obviously, I guess if they're feeding back to you, they like it, right? But

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what is it that they're looking at? A couple things. One, the humor, two, the poignancy, you know,

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I was storing in there about my, but I hope we're dying. We're two. My other awkward didn't die in

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what we're two. But is you pass tape for if his life? That's a very poignant sad story. We carry a lot

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of meaning. So there's heavy stuff. There's lighthearted stuff. People like the fact that have

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QR codes on the book. You can scan it, listen to the song and read the lyrics below. Fishing, they're not

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familiar. It's song. Even if they are, they said, "She's liking it off. I've heard the song. I'll read

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them." Well, there it's helped. The audio book people really enjoy because it's me telling the stories

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of person unless it's a fun stage. So people enjoy the humor. They enjoy the big picture meaning.

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Which is, you know, to me, a home run. That's what I was hoping for. So it's been us.

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Yeah, that's it. Okay. Well, that's great. You know, my final question is really,

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what do you hope that people get out of this book? What's the, you know, the takeaway, I guess,

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for the free readers? Take away, kind of having the last chapter. Get it's a meaningful and fulfilling,

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when riching life is based on meaningful, fulfilling and rich relationships of love, service,

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and, you know, to love is to act, you know, a harry-chapen-mouse-all-warty-curve would say,

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"I want to end out, do something." So take your gifts. Take the best of who you are. Never let it slip

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away and share it with others. Because that's all you got in this life, really. All the other stuff,

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the likes on the support, the money in your pocket, all go to life. But that little moment you can spend

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with people that's meaningful, that to me is stuff of life. And that's what I hope people get from it.

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So pass yourself around, paint forward, all that sort of stuff, right? So, you know, actually make

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sure that you make a difference as well. Don't keep it all to yourself. Well, that's another

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wise point there, Tom. Yeah, brilliant. Well, listen, my thanks to you, Tom Potosnack, for coming to talk

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to me today. You're the author of Subject to Change, as we know. And I guess we could buy the book and

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audio book up through Amazon and stuff. Yes, you can on my website, Tom, so it's neck.com.

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Brilliant. Okay.

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Yeah, I bet there is. Yeah, exactly. Okay. Well, listen everyone. Thank you very much for listening,

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listening and/or watching. Make sure to leave a comment down below so that Tom can, you know,

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sort of answer any questions that you've got and so that we can get a conversation started about this.

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But if you've enjoyed this conversation, then please subscribe, leave a review and share the

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episode with fellow readers and writers and old folks like me. I'm not saying anything about you, Tom,

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but old folks like me. Well, until next time, thanks for listening to author conversations. I've

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been Chris Dabbs and Tom Potosnak. Thank you once again for meeting up with me. It has been fantastic

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talking to you. If you enjoyed this conversation, you can watch more author conversations here.

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