When Friends Become Bullies | Marcellus Mitchell & Dr Lucille Hilliard

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[Music]

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Hello and welcome to author conversations with Chris Dabbs, as usual.

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Now, you know what, today we have got quite an interesting kind of interview

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because we've not only got one author, we have two authors, co-authors.

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And they're going to be talking about their book, which I'm going to let them introduce in a moment.

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But for now, let me just give you these ideas.

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Bullying in childhood, okay, we've all heard about it, we may have all experienced it, right?

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But it's not always loud or obvious, is it?

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You know, sometimes it's, yeah, it's being left out.

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Sometimes it's just kind of like being ignored by people.

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And sometimes the one that really hurts, I think, is discovering that the people you thought were your friends

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are the very people who are making you feel small, right?

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I think we've all had that in some respects.

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And as a child, that can be really hard to, well, to get to grips with, I think, and to tolerate.

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So, we have two guests today.

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I've got Marcellus Mitchell here, who's, you're going to wave, hi, hi Marcellus , say hello.

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Yeah, we're going to get all interactive.

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And then we also have Dr. Lucille Hilliard, who's with us as well.

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Hello.

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So, basically, you guys are the co-authors of a particular book called

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That Thing?

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Yes.

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With that kind of, that thing?

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Excellent.

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It's the second story, apparently, which I've saw, because I saw the other book,

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featuring the elegant elephant, the fly and the flea.

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But this time, friendship has fractured.

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The elegant elephant suddenly finds herself lied about, shamed, excluded, and bullied

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by the very friends she trusted.

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And at the heart of the story is a very simple message.

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Don't lie.

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Don't bully.

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Don't blame.

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And don't shame.

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Marcelo Smitchel, welcome to all the conversations.

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Tell us about yourselves quickly.

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How did you get to doing this book?

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Thank you.

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Thank you.

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Well, we came to do this book because we know that this was a real issue, and actually,

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someone actually went through this bullying as an adult.

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And we want everyone to know that bullying is still well and alive today.

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The workplace at home, in the schools, everywhere you can think about.

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And it doesn't just occur with children.

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It also happens to adults again because it happened to an adult.

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So this happens to everyone, no matter where you are, and right now, someone is being bullied.

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I guarantee you more than one person.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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That was very true.

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And I said, sorry, Marcellus go ahead.

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Go ahead.

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No, I was going to say, you asked Chris, how did we come to write this book?

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Dr. Hilliard is also my mom as well.

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So we called author this book because there was a time when I was getting ready to write

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a book.

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And she came to me with the idea.

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She said, hey, listen.

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I'm seeking someone to help me write a story about, like she mentioned, this is a story

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that we really know about a person who actually went through this situation.

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We just put it in a fictional setting.

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She didn't know that I was in a process of writing my own book at the time.

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But when she told me about this, I said, you know what, let's do it.

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Let's put it as a children's book so that we can share the message with the world.

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First of all, you know, that's nice as well.

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You know, I mean, it's nice that your mother and son are writing a book together and about

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something that affects not only children, but really does affect adults too.

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This is the whole point.

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Yeah.

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I think that's one of the most terrible things that people don't actually realize how that

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can be so demoralizing in the workplace, I think is the right way to put it.

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I think we've all had, I mean, I've had it myself against me a few years ago, but you kind

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of get all paranoid and you get, and as an adult, it's really tricky because of course,

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you're trying to earn your money, right?

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You're trying to earn your wages, you're trying to earn your salary.

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You don't need all that stuff.

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But as children, you know, obviously, you know, there's devastating, I think.

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Even before we open the book though, the title, you're giving us some sort of mystery here,

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aren't you, really, with that title?

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So explain that.

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I mean, you could have named the second story after the characters again, but instead you

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chose that, you know, that's not strange, but mysterious title.

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What exactly is that then?

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Yeah, you know, and you alluded to a Chris, you know, the first title, the elegant elephant

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flying fleek was such a long title.

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And so when we thought about the second book, we wanted something that was shorter, something

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that would, you know, catch the attention of someone, especially a child, but also it was

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a focus on not the three that we just talked about the elegant elephant flying fleek, but

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the thing.

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There was something that caused a problem or a rift between the three.

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What was it?

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It was that thing.

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And like you mentioned, you know, the thing could be anything.

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It's not just what's in that book.

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The thing could be the thing that comes between, you know, people on a job or any place in

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a home and a relationship.

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So you're right.

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It was, you know, one of the things to really bring about some sort of, what is that thing?

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You know, that's what we wanted to kind of capture the imagination of.

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Some type of mystery, some type of mystery as you read this book, what is this thing?

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What is it about?

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Why is it a thing?

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What is a thing?

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We all have a thing.

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We all have a thing.

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We have all, but some of us have more than anything.

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But children today have many things, including bullying.

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And that's something that they really should not or they should know how to handle it when

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they face, when they are faced with it.

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And they need to know what it looks like.

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So that's what we wanted to make sure a child would know what it looks like because sometimes

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it's so subtle that a child can miss it.

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So we wanted to make people aware of what bullying looks like.

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And so are you both educators then?

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Yes, we are.

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I am a motivator and educator.

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And I just love being an educator.

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It's just so natural for me.

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I'm a filamask, by the way.

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I just love learning.

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I love, love learning.

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And I love teaching.

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I'm a teacher also.

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I love teaching.

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I'm a student, a student always, as well as a teacher.

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And we wanted to make sure that these children are taught.

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And the parents, because sometimes parents miss --

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They miss the fact that their children are being bullied because they have their work,

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the parents.

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They have so much -- they have a lot of them, more than one child.

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And a lot of -- oftentimes they miss the fact that they could have a child who's really

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being bullied every day.

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But they don't have the opportunities to really sit and talk with the children as used to

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be the days of old.

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But now, computers, technology, and all of that kind of thing has somewhat interrupted

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a little bit of the parent-child conversations that they would normally have.

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That's very true, isn't it?

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That's very true.

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And so you must say this.

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You were going to say something there as well.

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But you're an educator, yeah?

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You're both educators, teachers.

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I just recall a time when I was in the classroom teaching abroad in Africa.

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Just thinking about the connections I was making with the children.

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And of course, a lot of educational experience here, too, in the States.

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It's a really -- it's a wonderful thing to be able to implant information into the minds

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of young children, especially when you yourself have gone through some of the experiences

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that they have gone through.

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You know, I myself, at some point, had an experience of being bullied.

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So I know how to navigate that whole space now.

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And again, just being a teacher, though, it's an extra blessing and bonus because now you

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know how to identify what they're going through and help them out of the situation.

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So yeah, we're both educators.

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And we just love the opportunity to talk to kids about how to overcome bullying as well

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as how to identify it.

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Yes.

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Yeah.

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Which is why I was asking because if you're dealing with young people or children, you'd have seen

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it.

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You'd have seen the aftermath of bullying and things.

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And I could have asked you a kind of a frivolous question, really.

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Whenever we see a bullying situation of a high school in the US, you know what I'm going

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to say, right?

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It looks horrific.

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I've got to say, in terms of the way that it's, that it's kind of structured and the way

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it's portrayed.

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Now it's not like that here.

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I mean, you know, I think with, with bullying is a bit different, but it seems like it's

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always like the big tough guy with his little cronies going around the place beating people

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up all the things like that.

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And that's kind of like normal, not normal, but that that's trying to think of the word,

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but I'm hoping that you can tell me that yet, if it is like that all the time, then

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at least you can help people to understand how to get out of that.

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Is that what you're saying?

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Or if that's nothing like it, that's just fictional.

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No, no, no, no, it's absolutely a reality here in the States.

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And like you said, the way in which it's portrayed, that is exactly how it is.

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And that is definitely one of our aims.

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You know, that's a goal.

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We want to be able to let any kind of person as being bullied, you know, we have a skit

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as a matter of fact, we're going to go into some schools starting next month.

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Now, we have a skit that portrays exactly what you just said.

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It's, you know, three bigger people beating up on a smaller kid, you know, a smaller size

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individual.

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And they're all in the same grade, but you know, the height difference makes a difference

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in terms of the power imbalance that exists in bullying, you know, because of course,

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there are two major elements to bullying.

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You have the power imbalance and then you also have something that has been going on

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consistently over time.

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And what we're trying to show, just like in the book, what we're trying to show is that no

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matter what size you are, you can be bullied.

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But the biggest thing there is is what's inside you internally to be able to overcome whatever

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the experience is.

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And that might mean telling someone, it might mean going into, you know, an isolated moment

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so that you can gather yourself and realize what is taking place and what the proper steps

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to address it can be, you know, but what we want to do is try to help a child remove themselves

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from that environment, from that situation so that they can get help.

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And that's the biggest key to get help.

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But yeah, it is that way.

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What you see on TV is what's here in America.

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And one of the things we're trying to do is to get into all the schools to let people know

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doesn't make a difference what size you are, you know, where you come from, what you

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look like.

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You can't experience bullying, but the biggest thing you can do more than anything else

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is you can overcome it.

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We want to assist these young people in building a positive self image.

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We want to go, this book goes directly to the character of the child.

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We want the child to realize his or her values.

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Some children have never been taught values by their parents.

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Therefore they feel inferior to someone who's larger and they just give in to that person

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because they are larger, because they have the attitude to try to suppress the child.

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Some children don't understand that's happening.

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And we want to make them aware of what's going on so that they can realize the importance

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that I am, I am valuable.

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I am important.

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And I really don't have to be treated this way by you.

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We don't have to have this.

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And we want to take the child and stand up and say, I am like Jesse Jackson would say,

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I am somebody.

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You're not going to treat me this way.

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So we want to take this all the way everywhere, over across the nation, the world, because

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some children are, it's just so, there's some things happening in America to these children

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from bullying and I don't want to talk about it too much now, but they're not good things.

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The strange dichotomy regarding that thing is the character who's being bullied is an

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elephant.

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You know, and she's way larger than the two who are bullying her, a fly and a flea.

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So what we've been, what we were trying to do with this book is let each and every person

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know it doesn't make a difference.

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How big you are, how small you are, there can always be something that thing that can come

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in between and cause a problem where bullying can start.

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Bullying can start because you think you have more money than someone, right?

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You can think you're more educated, smarter than someone and you use your advantage.

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That is that power piece, right?

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That's, you know, that occurs in bullying because it always uses an imbalance of power.

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When you think you have more than someone else or you're better than someone else, you can

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use that to infuriate them, you know, intimidate them.

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And like Dr. Hillier was saying, one of the goals that we are trying to do is to empower

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the child, to give them confidence, to give them awareness, to give them faith, to build

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it up in them so that they can know that there's nothing that can come against them to

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cause them to feel intimidated by anyone.

241
00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:54,400
Because, yeah, as you said, fly and flee, they're supposed to be elegant elephants friends.

242
00:14:54,400 --> 00:14:57,040
And yet they begin excluding her, ignoring her, right?

243
00:14:57,040 --> 00:14:58,880
And treating her as those who's almost invisible.

244
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That really hurts.

245
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That can hurt anybody.

246
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And I think we've all been through that kind of thing.

247
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You know, threes are crowd, all that sort of stuff, right?

248
00:15:07,240 --> 00:15:11,960
So I mean, why was it important to show children that bullying can sometimes come from people

249
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that they know well and actually trust?

250
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Why is that important?

251
00:15:17,800 --> 00:15:19,800
Marcelo, is she got it?

252
00:15:19,800 --> 00:15:20,800
Not at all.

253
00:15:20,800 --> 00:15:27,960
That's an important piece because it could assist a child in realizing that that you should

254
00:15:27,960 --> 00:15:31,800
not trust, children are so trusting, first of all.

255
00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:33,760
They're so, they're so trusting.

256
00:15:33,760 --> 00:15:37,680
And they're so fast to say, I met a new friend today.

257
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We have to really teach a child what a friend really is because children don't know since

258
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they're so friendly, so innocent.

259
00:15:46,440 --> 00:15:50,560
You, these things should really be taught at home, but in case they are not, that's why

260
00:15:50,560 --> 00:15:56,120
we have the book to show that the parents can read the book to the child or children to

261
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show them who is trustworthy.

262
00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:06,200
Your parents are trustworthy and to let them see the traits of a trustworthy person.

263
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Let the child know that you can come to talk to me about anything that you experienced

264
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during the days that you're not with me during the times.

265
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You're not with me.

266
00:16:16,080 --> 00:16:23,120
It is so important for a child to really understand what friendship is because they can go

267
00:16:23,120 --> 00:16:28,980
right out here and make a friend with an enemy and all along the enemy could be the

268
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biggest bully, but since the child doesn't have the awareness of what bullying really

269
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is, they mistake it for friendship until they talk to the parents and until the parents

270
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talk to them and teach them, they sometimes are very unaware of what friendship really

271
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is.

272
00:16:47,880 --> 00:16:52,600
Yeah, and Chris, I tell you, again, excellent question.

273
00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:58,400
That question causes me to think about where problems really do arise.

274
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You know, where issues really arise, they really arise and we don't understand this

275
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a lot, but they come from within.

276
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They come from within us, the battles that exist in us, they have to be something to be

277
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addressed.

278
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We have to overcome those things.

279
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And so what we're trying to do by letting the children know that you have to look at your

280
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friends first, a lot of the times because they're your intimate circle.

281
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They're the people that are closer to you.

282
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So a lot of the times we're looking outside of them, a lot of the times though, it's right

283
00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:35,240
there in front of us.

284
00:17:35,240 --> 00:17:40,360
So we want them to be able to choose their friends carefully, choose them more carefully.

285
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Look at your friends, look, make a list.

286
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See if your friends have this quality, that quality, the other quality, if they don't have

287
00:17:48,840 --> 00:17:53,600
it, you need to question that friendship because if you're not careful, you'll end up

288
00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:59,080
doing what they're doing and what they're doing may not be the right thing to do.

289
00:17:59,080 --> 00:18:01,080
That's where peer pressure comes in.

290
00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:04,560
It's just about to say because you empower people, don't you?

291
00:18:04,560 --> 00:18:06,240
You just want to be friends, right?

292
00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:07,240
Yes.

293
00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:08,880
And they want to be long.

294
00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:11,040
We all want to be long.

295
00:18:11,040 --> 00:18:15,080
And I think that comes from man's low hierarchy of knees.

296
00:18:15,080 --> 00:18:19,800
We all want to be long and children definitely want to be long.

297
00:18:19,800 --> 00:18:23,280
And sometimes you can hear our friends, little children.

298
00:18:23,280 --> 00:18:26,120
Things out my friend anymore, what happened?

299
00:18:26,120 --> 00:18:28,520
And they commenced to tell the parent what happened.

300
00:18:28,520 --> 00:18:36,360
And then the next day, we're friends again, that, you know, that that that happens too often.

301
00:18:36,360 --> 00:18:42,840
And that can be a form of bullying starts early, very early and manipulation.

302
00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:50,240
Those things start very early and we want to teach those children very early what these

303
00:18:50,240 --> 00:18:55,760
traits are, which traits are positive and which traits are negative.

304
00:18:55,760 --> 00:18:57,560
Yeah, absolutely.

305
00:18:57,560 --> 00:19:02,200
And I like the way that you mentioned earlier on Dr. Heliard about trustworthy and the way

306
00:19:02,200 --> 00:19:05,840
that you pronounced it actually was really, I don't know whether you did that intentionally

307
00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:11,680
or not, but you were more like trustworthy as opposed to just someone who's trustworthy.

308
00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:15,120
Like I would just like run the two together if you see what I mean.

309
00:19:15,120 --> 00:19:17,120
But you were saying trustworthy.

310
00:19:17,120 --> 00:19:19,800
And so that made me think, yeah, you're right.

311
00:19:19,800 --> 00:19:24,280
You know, people have to sort of think about who is worthy of your trust.

312
00:19:24,280 --> 00:19:25,360
That's it.

313
00:19:25,360 --> 00:19:26,360
That's it.

314
00:19:26,360 --> 00:19:27,360
That's it.

315
00:19:27,360 --> 00:19:33,360
Here's one more little thing and you need to know what your worth is.

316
00:19:33,360 --> 00:19:34,360
Are you valuable?

317
00:19:34,360 --> 00:19:36,320
What is your worth?

318
00:19:36,320 --> 00:19:38,800
What is yourself worth?

319
00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:44,720
That's what parents need to teach the children that they are valuable regardless of the color,

320
00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:46,560
regardless of the clothing.

321
00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:52,040
If you don't have all the designer clothing, regardless of what you look like, what your hair

322
00:19:52,040 --> 00:19:55,240
looks like, it doesn't matter.

323
00:19:55,240 --> 00:20:01,080
Like Marcella said, it is what is within you, the inner person.

324
00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:08,040
We need to make sure we build that child up from the inside out, not based on what they

325
00:20:08,040 --> 00:20:11,080
wear materiallyistically or where they live.

326
00:20:11,080 --> 00:20:17,800
We need to put the values inside that child so they can know their self-worth.

327
00:20:17,800 --> 00:20:18,800
Right.

328
00:20:18,800 --> 00:20:24,240
And Chris, just real fast, if I may, in the book, that's what the elegant elephant found

329
00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:25,240
out.

330
00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:26,520
She found her worth.

331
00:20:26,520 --> 00:20:33,520
She found what was inside of her to help her overcome the outside noise which was coming

332
00:20:33,520 --> 00:20:36,080
from the flying the fleet.

333
00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:37,760
Well, they were, I mean, okay.

334
00:20:37,760 --> 00:20:41,880
So you've said this is interesting because I think you said somewhere that the original idea

335
00:20:41,880 --> 00:20:47,200
of this for this was inspired by something that happened to somebody that you both know.

336
00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:48,200
Yes.

337
00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:50,320
Can you tell us about that?

338
00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:54,440
And have that become, you know, that experience become the story of the elegant elephant

339
00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:55,440
flying the fleet?

340
00:20:55,440 --> 00:20:56,440
Okay.

341
00:20:56,440 --> 00:20:59,200
Well, this is the way to Marcella's wrong offers.

342
00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:00,720
Don't want to please.

343
00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:02,400
It happened this way.

344
00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:10,160
This young lady was working for probably five years on her job and catastrophe occurred

345
00:21:10,160 --> 00:21:19,400
in her family within her family and the two, the elephant, the, she became the elephant

346
00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:27,720
because she was told every day, encouraged by an outsider and every day she was called

347
00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:33,120
by the outsider and would ask the outsider would ask how are you today?

348
00:21:33,120 --> 00:21:34,640
I want to get out of here.

349
00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:40,000
I have to get out of here because someone is going to get hurt today.

350
00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:44,120
Something is going to occur today if I don't get out of here.

351
00:21:44,120 --> 00:21:49,560
She was encouraged every day to say, okay, let's say you get off at 4 30 is 4 o'clock.

352
00:21:49,560 --> 00:21:56,520
Now you only have 30 minutes to go and those two people who are annoying you are bullies.

353
00:21:56,520 --> 00:21:59,880
They're nothing but they're also pissed.

354
00:21:59,880 --> 00:22:02,560
They're like a fly and a flea.

355
00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:07,840
And the person asks, do you have you ever seen a cow?

356
00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:13,200
You know, the cow on the farm, the, the, the pests are always on it.

357
00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:14,360
Parasites.

358
00:22:14,360 --> 00:22:16,280
They just fly on the cow.

359
00:22:16,280 --> 00:22:19,240
You probably never seen it, but they land on the cow.

360
00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:24,920
And then the cow switches his tail around trying to get them off because they're annoying.

361
00:22:24,920 --> 00:22:33,560
That's what they were to her annoyances day in and day out until she lost, she lost her

362
00:22:33,560 --> 00:22:34,560
employment.

363
00:22:34,560 --> 00:22:35,720
They got rid of her.

364
00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:42,280
They made her the person to just, you got to get, you got to go.

365
00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:43,280
You have to go.

366
00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:44,280
Right.

367
00:22:44,280 --> 00:22:49,920
And Chris, prior to the thing that that caused this whole situation in her life, just like

368
00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:54,560
the elegant elephant, the flying a flea, they all went out to parties.

369
00:22:54,560 --> 00:22:55,560
They were having fun.

370
00:22:55,560 --> 00:22:58,360
They were doing everything together, you know.

371
00:22:58,360 --> 00:23:02,680
And then when this thing happened, the two turned on her.

372
00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:07,280
They became like Dr. Hillie said, they were pests.

373
00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:09,040
They were irritates.

374
00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:10,360
They were annoying her.

375
00:23:10,360 --> 00:23:11,440
It was really bad.

376
00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:13,760
So it's, it happened.

377
00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:18,040
The great thing about that is that the young lady is doing well now.

378
00:23:18,040 --> 00:23:22,360
Exceptionally, excepting.

379
00:23:22,360 --> 00:23:28,400
I was going to ask, yeah, that must be terrible, you know, to lose your employment like that.

380
00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:29,400
Terrible.

381
00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:30,560
I mean, this is the whole thing though, isn't it?

382
00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:32,880
You know, we're talking about what happens.

383
00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:34,280
That's an adult.

384
00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:36,280
And that made you think about writing this.

385
00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:40,920
So, you know, with a child, of course, the elegant elephant goes through emotions.

386
00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:42,240
She's not experienced before.

387
00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:45,960
You know, much like that person didn't, you know, obviously you're going to be confused.

388
00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:51,200
You know, you're going to be blindsided, hurt, you know, and feel no self-worth, right?

389
00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:55,680
But the store, yeah, the store is ultimately about her finding a strength, which is great

390
00:23:55,680 --> 00:23:57,480
to come through it, of course.

391
00:23:57,480 --> 00:24:02,360
But with children though, I mean, how do you want them to understand about their own value?

392
00:24:02,360 --> 00:24:07,240
And you mentioned it earlier on, Dr. Hillie, about not, you know, having been taught at home

393
00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:11,520
or not having, I don't know, a circle to give these children their own self-worth.

394
00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:15,920
I mean, how can you help them to understand their own value when somebody else makes

395
00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:18,920
them feel unwanted or ashamed or something?

396
00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:26,600
Well, you know, we can offer, I'm looking at the schools, they can offer like 30 minutes

397
00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:34,200
a day for classes, some type of seminar to even encourage a little children through toys,

398
00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:42,720
through examples, through, through, create something, create ways in which children interact

399
00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:47,400
together to show examples depending on the age group.

400
00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:53,800
They could show this is bad, this is not a good example here, or this is good.

401
00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:55,360
Which one do you think is bad?

402
00:24:55,360 --> 00:24:56,360
Oh, that was bad.

403
00:24:56,360 --> 00:25:03,400
He treated them, you know, give them some exercises, set aside some time, even if it's 15

404
00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:11,000
minutes a day from the class, work to interact, to share with these children, some of these

405
00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:16,640
things that they need to know, to build their character, some things they need to be aware

406
00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:17,880
of.

407
00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:19,880
What is this?

408
00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:26,480
Positive's negatives, good, bad, they need to know these things and they can do something

409
00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:28,280
with that in the schools.

410
00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:30,840
If that makes any sense.

411
00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:33,560
Well, you'd like workshopping, I guess, right?

412
00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:37,480
So, you know, you'd provide some workshops for these little people.

413
00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:41,960
They're not too young to learn because they are sponges.

414
00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:44,040
Oh, yeah, totally, totally.

415
00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:46,480
Which is, again, that's another interesting point.

416
00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:51,160
You know, one of the things that makes me think about this is that we're talking about a

417
00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:54,920
really big subject here and we're talking about bullying and we're talking about children

418
00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:58,960
being bullied or bullying perhaps and you want the bullies to understand what they're

419
00:25:58,960 --> 00:25:59,960
doing is wrong, right?

420
00:25:59,960 --> 00:26:00,960
Right, right.

421
00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:02,960
From as early as age as possible.

422
00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:06,600
And then, of course, you've got that whole generational thing behind them.

423
00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:10,800
What they hear at home, what their siblings are doing, what their parents are doing, you

424
00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:14,440
know, they've grown up in that environment already.

425
00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:17,680
So hopefully we can make a difference, right?

426
00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:19,640
You can make a difference with the book.

427
00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:24,560
You can make a difference with helping schools to help these children to be able to do that.

428
00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:28,800
And also, you mentioned in your book as well that faith is an important part of the story

429
00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:29,800
as well, right?

430
00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:30,800
Yes.

431
00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:36,040
You know, God comes along and gives the elegant elephant strength, really.

432
00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:39,920
How are you thinking about introducing that idea of faith and spiritual strength to children

433
00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:44,320
without kind of, I guess, taking away the very real emotions that may be experiencing?

434
00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:48,440
In other words, you can't just say to them, "Oh, don't worry about it because God's

435
00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:52,280
there because they're going to be feeling really upset about it, aren't they?"

436
00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:57,960
Yeah, what we wanted to do in the book is, as I mentioned earlier, we want a child to

437
00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:07,840
know that there are acceptable times where you can accept your emotions.

438
00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:10,600
You can be in touch with yourself.

439
00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:13,760
If you're feeling a certain way, you can feel that way.

440
00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:16,320
You don't have to run away from it.

441
00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:21,040
And when you feel that way, talk about it.

442
00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:22,120
Speak about it.

443
00:27:22,120 --> 00:27:27,680
It doesn't necessarily have to be what we identify in the book as God.

444
00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:36,400
It can be something higher, a higher power because we're not trying to promote God to anyone

445
00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:41,400
because God is someone for someone to choose by themselves.

446
00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:47,800
The aim of the book, though, is to let a child know you should be comfortable with yourself

447
00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:53,280
and seeking something higher than yourself so that you can overcome.

448
00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:56,960
So we're not, again, so we're not trying to say, "Hey, go to God.

449
00:27:56,960 --> 00:28:02,320
So find your voice when something's going on in your life.

450
00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:03,320
Find your voice.

451
00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:04,320
Don't run away from it."

452
00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:14,480
We say, "There are times when you can be in a place, in a space where you can now internalize

453
00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:20,240
what is happening so that you can ultimately rise against it or rise above it."

454
00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:23,440
One thing about that is this.

455
00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:29,160
The aim of the book is to get children started at an early age because it's the same thing

456
00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:30,160
for adults.

457
00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:34,200
We have to be responsible for our own selves.

458
00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:36,360
No one can make us do anything.

459
00:28:36,360 --> 00:28:45,040
So it's highly important for us to come to the grips, come to grips with whatever the situation

460
00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:46,040
is.

461
00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:51,960
So that's one of the things we wanted to do that let the kids know you can sit with yourself.

462
00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:58,280
So it's in those moments we're saying, you know, they can identify what's best for them

463
00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:02,200
as opposed to seeking someone else out.

464
00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:07,000
At the end of the edition of that, we really want to help the child to learn how to respect

465
00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:09,080
him or herself.

466
00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:15,000
We want them to understand that that's very important because if you don't have self-respect,

467
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:18,200
that's another thing to build that positive self-image.

468
00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:24,080
If you don't have self-respect, you might find that people really can run all over you and

469
00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:29,520
do anything they want to do at any time to you because you don't stand up because you

470
00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:31,520
don't have a voice.

471
00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:32,800
You don't have a voice.

472
00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:38,280
I was teaching a class today, but all week, rather.

473
00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:45,520
And I was sharing with a group of adult women that we looked at an example of a person who

474
00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:47,600
had no voice.

475
00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:53,560
When we looked at a person who had a voice, a fit to a female, then we looked at another

476
00:29:53,560 --> 00:30:01,840
person who had a voice and she used her voice as well as her actions to get everything she

477
00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:03,720
needed accomplished.

478
00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:09,360
When you don't have a voice, you get nothing accomplished.

479
00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:14,200
You're looking, you're depending on others to protect you, you're depending, you might

480
00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:19,320
go through your entire life depending on other people to protect you.

481
00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:25,880
If you don't get that information at an earlier age in your formative years, you might go through

482
00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:32,760
life until you become an adult and learn, wait a minute, I never became self-sufficient.

483
00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:35,560
I don't know how to take care of myself.

484
00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:36,880
I don't know what I'm doing.

485
00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:39,400
I don't know who I am.

486
00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:44,560
So we want to help these little children to, I call them little children, we want to help

487
00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:51,360
the younger group to understand who they are at an early age so that they can make conscientious

488
00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:58,720
decisions and efforts to be all they can be so that they'll know exactly what some of

489
00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:06,440
the things are that they want to do, some of the things that, who they want to become.

490
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:12,400
I want to be a doctor, I want to be a nurse, I want to be a lawyer, I need to stand up and

491
00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:14,400
defend myself.

492
00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:18,320
I need to be me, a stronger mean.

493
00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:26,640
We need to help them to build that self-image, that positive self-image and this book has so

494
00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:32,640
many, and I'm not just saying it, it is so inspirational.

495
00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:40,660
We intend it to be inspirational, that was on purpose to help the parents to read this

496
00:31:40,660 --> 00:31:47,200
to the children so that they can see all of the nuggets that we have in this book.

497
00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:54,160
It's in the still moments, you know, when it's quiet, if you think about what happened

498
00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:59,200
with the elegant elephant, it was a quiet night, it was at night, she was in her bed at

499
00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:00,520
the time.

500
00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:02,480
That's when she found her voice.

501
00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:07,460
You know, like Dr. Hilli was saying, it's finding your voice and what we're saying is stop

502
00:32:07,460 --> 00:32:09,960
listening to all the other voices.

503
00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:19,880
Sometimes you have to, even as a child, you have to accept what's going on and listen.

504
00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:28,080
Once you listen, you can start to talk to that voice, find that voice and that voice can

505
00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:31,320
be developed and you can rise from this.

506
00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:34,640
So that's what I was saying, what she's saying right there because it's in that voice where

507
00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:39,520
you find your confidence, where you find your respect, where you find out what you will

508
00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:42,280
and what you will not accept.

509
00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:46,720
You know, but with your listening to everybody else, that's the noise, that's the outside

510
00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:52,560
stuff we're saying, look inwardly because that's where your peace will come.

511
00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:53,960
Look inward.

512
00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:58,040
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

513
00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:03,800
Of course, children and adults nowadays have worked, you know, the issues with social media

514
00:33:03,800 --> 00:33:10,400
perhaps or anything else that may give them more noise than they perhaps want to have in

515
00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:12,600
their lives, which is understandable, right?

516
00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:13,600
We're talking about such a great subject.

517
00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:15,440
We've got time for a couple more questions.

518
00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:16,840
So I think it's important.

519
00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:21,400
We've looked at this book and looked at the subject from a very kind of, I think, adult

520
00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:22,680
kind of way.

521
00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:25,600
But let's, we're talking about children's book, fundamentally here.

522
00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:30,400
So if there was a child or a young person, whatever, imagine a child, you know, watching

523
00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:34,480
us now, listening to us now and things that, you know, the elegant elephant and the fun

524
00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:37,880
of the flea is something that they can resonate with, right?

525
00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:41,720
They understand that they're being, maybe they think they're being excluded at school.

526
00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:45,960
Perhaps their friends have turned on their, or they're being made to feel that somehow

527
00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:47,120
something's wrong with them.

528
00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:48,120
I don't know.

529
00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:50,440
But what would you say directly to that child?

530
00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:55,240
If you saw somebody like that, or would you not say something out of the blue, but you

531
00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:56,880
would expect them to come to you first.

532
00:33:56,880 --> 00:33:57,880
And then what would you say?

533
00:33:57,880 --> 00:34:02,240
What would be the best way for that child to deal with it, do you think come to you or

534
00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:03,240
not?

535
00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:09,160
I have had those situations to come up in a classroom.

536
00:34:09,160 --> 00:34:20,720
And the children were making fun of a young person who had nail polish on of the opposite

537
00:34:20,720 --> 00:34:23,360
sex with nail polish.

538
00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:27,960
And they were picking at that child and I went to the child to find out.

539
00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:34,240
And the child had isolated himself or herself from the children.

540
00:34:34,240 --> 00:34:37,480
And I was asking the question, what is wrong?

541
00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:44,360
So the first thing I want to do is to try to get that child to communicate, as Marcella

542
00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:49,840
said, because some children are so shy, some children are so intrinsic.

543
00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:55,560
They hold everything on the inside, especially if they don't know you, they won't talk to

544
00:34:55,560 --> 00:34:56,560
you.

545
00:34:56,560 --> 00:35:04,520
If they have issues such as that child had, they don't know how to express themselves.

546
00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:09,760
So the first thing that I did was I tried to get the child to communicate to me what was

547
00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:16,320
going on with the child, hearing the children and what they were doing to the child.

548
00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:21,800
I was hearing what was happening, but I wanted to isolate that child from Marcella's

549
00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:27,960
mention that noise because I wanted to hear from that child what is happening to you on

550
00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:29,760
the inside?

551
00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:31,600
What are you thinking?

552
00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:33,120
That's what I want to know first.

553
00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:34,960
What are you thinking?

554
00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:37,040
What is going on on the inside?

555
00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:38,600
What's happening to you?

556
00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:43,600
And the child would not voice that information.

557
00:35:43,600 --> 00:35:46,080
He wouldn't give it up to me.

558
00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:47,080
Why?

559
00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:50,400
Because he didn't know me.

560
00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:52,600
That's the first thing I thought he didn't know.

561
00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:58,560
I know he didn't know me, but I thought he's not talking or she's not talking because I

562
00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:05,320
wasn't sure whether the child, you know, was what the sex of the child was.

563
00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:10,040
I wasn't sure even how to approach the child.

564
00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:18,600
So you have to use extreme caution, especially in a school setting because that could make

565
00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:24,960
you the teacher look as though you now have become an enemy of the child.

566
00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:27,240
So you're just like the children.

567
00:36:27,240 --> 00:36:29,080
Now you don't know who I am.

568
00:36:29,080 --> 00:36:31,080
You don't know what I am.

569
00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:33,600
So you can't even help me.

570
00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:40,000
I just want to go home where I'm comfortable because I'm not comfortable here with them.

571
00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:48,080
I'm either am I comfortable here with you and that can get a teacher in so much trouble.

572
00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:49,080
Yeah.

573
00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:50,080
I think so.

574
00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:55,200
I think the longer short of it there, I think is that if you're talking to a teacher at

575
00:36:55,200 --> 00:37:00,680
school and you're a child and you're upset or you're worried, you can talk to a teacher

576
00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:01,680
at school.

577
00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:05,800
You can trust that person and you should be able to trust that person at least anyway.

578
00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:07,120
It could be tough though, couldn't it?

579
00:37:07,120 --> 00:37:12,640
But yes, just think that they have teachers have the child's best interest at heart, right?

580
00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:13,640
Yes.

581
00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:14,640
Or they should have.

582
00:37:14,640 --> 00:37:16,640
That's the whole point, isn't it?

583
00:37:16,640 --> 00:37:17,640
Yes.

584
00:37:17,640 --> 00:37:21,640
And you know, excuse me, but another thing too that can be done that I never thought about

585
00:37:21,640 --> 00:37:29,640
then was you young child, bring your mom and dad here because we can talk together.

586
00:37:29,640 --> 00:37:35,400
And if you do that then the mother, the child, see that the parents trust you.

587
00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:40,960
If you bring the child in front of the parents and have this conversation with all of you

588
00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:48,480
there, then the parent can say to the child, you can trust Ms. X or Mr. X because they care

589
00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:49,480
about you.

590
00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:53,960
And while we're not here, we're leaving you and their care.

591
00:37:53,960 --> 00:38:00,680
They can help to build that trust by communicating where the child has frozen and doesn't have

592
00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:05,920
that knowledge of who you are or that trust in you, the parents can assist.

593
00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:13,480
Bring the parent to help to communicate to the child that this person has your best interest

594
00:38:13,480 --> 00:38:14,960
in heart at heart.

595
00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:19,560
And this is the one you go to until you get home.

596
00:38:19,560 --> 00:38:24,640
This is your safety net right here in this person in this phase.

597
00:38:24,640 --> 00:38:26,880
And Chris, I know we're running out of time.

598
00:38:26,880 --> 00:38:32,360
I didn't want to just take a minute though, just to also answer that question.

599
00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:39,240
There are many ways to address a child who's having a difficult time in school being bullied.

600
00:38:39,240 --> 00:38:44,840
One of the things for me right from the beginning though, to me, is to get that child alone.

601
00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:46,640
How are you?

602
00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:48,640
What's going on?

603
00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:50,360
How do you feel?

604
00:38:50,360 --> 00:38:53,000
What you know, talk to me, right?

605
00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:57,200
Try to get the child to talk, try to get the child to trust me.

606
00:38:57,200 --> 00:39:04,040
After that, I'm going to start to talk about those things that I see, right?

607
00:39:04,040 --> 00:39:06,360
Depending on what the child is telling me.

608
00:39:06,360 --> 00:39:11,040
But if I know of a situation, I'm going to try to relate to that child.

609
00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:14,960
Let them know they're not going through that thing alone.

610
00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:19,360
I'm an adult and I've experienced the same thing.

611
00:39:19,360 --> 00:39:21,840
But now comes the good part.

612
00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:29,880
I want to let them know that what they see before them is the same thing that they can be

613
00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:33,120
come if they get through and they can't get through.

614
00:39:33,120 --> 00:39:36,040
So I'm going to tell them how to get through.

615
00:39:36,040 --> 00:39:40,440
And the way in which you do that, I think for a child is to let them know what they have

616
00:39:40,440 --> 00:39:43,320
inside of them to get them through.

617
00:39:43,320 --> 00:39:47,720
So now we're talking about you are confident.

618
00:39:47,720 --> 00:39:49,520
You are amazing.

619
00:39:49,520 --> 00:39:50,960
You are bold.

620
00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:53,000
These things are in you.

621
00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:54,800
They have to come out.

622
00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:56,960
You have to be the one.

623
00:39:56,960 --> 00:39:58,800
And I'm here to help you.

624
00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:01,160
Let's talk every day.

625
00:40:01,160 --> 00:40:03,320
Every day I'll come to you at a certain time.

626
00:40:03,320 --> 00:40:05,880
And let's just self affirmation, right?

627
00:40:05,880 --> 00:40:06,880
Look in the mirror.

628
00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:08,440
We're going to give us some exercises now.

629
00:40:08,440 --> 00:40:11,680
Did you look in the mirror this morning to tell yourself you're beautiful, that you're

630
00:40:11,680 --> 00:40:14,720
smart, you're intelligent.

631
00:40:14,720 --> 00:40:17,960
So these are the things we do right from the beginning.

632
00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:24,040
And then over time, like my mom said, Dr. Hillier said, we can now start to move into the family

633
00:40:24,040 --> 00:40:26,720
setting so that they can trust us too.

634
00:40:26,720 --> 00:40:30,240
Because as the old adage is, it's a village.

635
00:40:30,240 --> 00:40:32,400
It takes to raise a child.

636
00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:33,840
It's a village concept.

637
00:40:33,840 --> 00:40:36,440
You know, you and I, we're a family.

638
00:40:36,440 --> 00:40:38,320
Even though I'm here and you're there.

639
00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:40,720
You know, so we want to bridge that gap.

640
00:40:40,720 --> 00:40:42,400
I think it's a really good point actually, isn't it?

641
00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:44,920
Yeah, bridging the gap between the family and everything else.

642
00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:49,360
And I think as we said earlier on in the conversation about how, you know, it can be difficult because,

643
00:40:49,360 --> 00:40:54,520
you know, sometimes family life doesn't always give the child a good start with these things

644
00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:55,880
and understanding who they are.

645
00:40:55,880 --> 00:41:00,320
And so yeah, you know, if you're spending it, if the child is in school, that's good for

646
00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:01,320
a start, right?

647
00:41:01,320 --> 00:41:03,320
They are actually attending school, right?

648
00:41:03,320 --> 00:41:04,320
I'm going.

649
00:41:04,320 --> 00:41:06,600
And so they, yeah, it's not only about learning.

650
00:41:06,600 --> 00:41:11,600
It's about really being able to move forward as a human being and to come through the other

651
00:41:11,600 --> 00:41:12,600
side.

652
00:41:12,600 --> 00:41:16,800
And lots of people, most people come through the other side, but those children don't think

653
00:41:16,800 --> 00:41:18,120
they do, do they?

654
00:41:18,120 --> 00:41:20,320
Because of course, it's like the worst thing ever.

655
00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:22,080
So no, I get that.

656
00:41:22,080 --> 00:41:24,520
And so yeah, that's the way to look at it, isn't it?

657
00:41:24,520 --> 00:41:25,520
Really?

658
00:41:25,520 --> 00:41:29,440
So, okay, so the final question there, the phrase that's running through the book really

659
00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:34,680
is, it's kind of wonderful, really, for parents to read to their children or even if their

660
00:41:34,680 --> 00:41:35,920
children want to read it themselves.

661
00:41:35,920 --> 00:41:40,800
But I think it's a good idea to read with parents, you know, but the phrase is, you know,

662
00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:45,120
don't lie, don't bully, don't blame, and don't shame this, right?

663
00:41:45,120 --> 00:41:50,240
Yeah, you're talking about self-esteem, respect, confidence, peer pressure and all that sort

664
00:41:50,240 --> 00:41:51,240
of stuff.

665
00:41:51,240 --> 00:41:58,960
So if a child remembers just a little thing from that thing, right, one little idea, you

666
00:41:58,960 --> 00:42:03,360
know, long after they finished reading it, what do you hope that idea will be because,

667
00:42:03,360 --> 00:42:05,480
you know, kids kind of do that, don't they?

668
00:42:05,480 --> 00:42:07,880
They'll remember one thing from something.

669
00:42:07,880 --> 00:42:08,880
Don't lie.

670
00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:11,960
I am special.

671
00:42:11,960 --> 00:42:13,480
Like it, okay, okay.

672
00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:14,480
Yes, show.

673
00:42:14,480 --> 00:42:20,440
Okay, now I thought she was going to finish off what I thought and it's don't lie, don't blame,

674
00:42:20,440 --> 00:42:21,640
don't bully, don't shame.

675
00:42:21,640 --> 00:42:23,280
That's what I want them to realize.

676
00:42:23,280 --> 00:42:26,120
I want them to walk away with that message.

677
00:42:26,120 --> 00:42:28,800
That's why that message is there.

678
00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:29,800
That's it.

679
00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:33,160
Don't lie, don't blame, don't bully, don't shame.

680
00:42:33,160 --> 00:42:34,160
That's it.

681
00:42:34,160 --> 00:42:37,720
Don't lie, don't bully, don't blame, don't shame.

682
00:42:37,720 --> 00:42:45,800
I will not accept you doing those things to me because I am special.

683
00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:52,080
And therefore you won't, you won't just have me believing a lie.

684
00:42:52,080 --> 00:42:58,200
You won't bully me and you're not going to make me the blame for anything.

685
00:42:58,200 --> 00:43:01,160
Therefore, I will not feel any shame.

686
00:43:01,160 --> 00:43:04,960
So don't lie, don't bully, don't blame, don't shame.

687
00:43:04,960 --> 00:43:05,960
Right.

688
00:43:05,960 --> 00:43:08,560
Don't bully, don't blame.

689
00:43:08,560 --> 00:43:11,640
And don't say, don't blame, don't say.

690
00:43:11,640 --> 00:43:15,760
What she said, perfect, perfect, perfect.

691
00:43:15,760 --> 00:43:16,760
I don't know.

692
00:43:16,760 --> 00:43:22,040
I get, well listen, you guys, you know, Dr. Lucille Hilliard and Marcellus Mitchell,

693
00:43:22,040 --> 00:43:26,160
has been wonderful having you here as co-authors talking about, you know, that thing.

694
00:43:26,160 --> 00:43:29,040
Thank you so much for joining me on author conversations.

695
00:43:29,040 --> 00:43:33,200
Now, before I wrap up though, tell us how people can find you on socials and things

696
00:43:33,200 --> 00:43:35,080
like that, your website, all that sort of good stuff.

697
00:43:35,080 --> 00:43:43,440
Well, let me just say that one very quickly, the cncwork.com.

698
00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:45,200
We add extra bond to the cell.

699
00:43:45,200 --> 00:43:48,920
We have a trailer for that thing as well.

700
00:43:48,920 --> 00:43:51,680
Give us that again, please.

701
00:43:51,680 --> 00:44:01,560
See alphabet, see alphabet C, A N D C dot com C and C work dot com.

702
00:44:01,560 --> 00:44:03,160
You'll find the trailer.

703
00:44:03,160 --> 00:44:04,160
Marcelos.

704
00:44:04,160 --> 00:44:09,480
Also, we have another website called createdworks.com.

705
00:44:09,480 --> 00:44:15,080
That's created with the K, so K, R E A T E D works dot com.

706
00:44:15,080 --> 00:44:17,920
Also we're at, at created works.

707
00:44:17,920 --> 00:44:21,040
That's Instagram and ticked talk as well.

708
00:44:21,040 --> 00:44:22,040
Let's see.

709
00:44:22,040 --> 00:44:25,920
Yeah, those are the, you know, those are the ways in which to find it.

710
00:44:25,920 --> 00:44:26,920
Excellent.

711
00:44:26,920 --> 00:44:31,080
Well, listen, it's been absolutely wonderful out of every enjoyed our conversation about

712
00:44:31,080 --> 00:44:32,080
such a big topic.

713
00:44:32,080 --> 00:44:36,560
I think that, you know, it sounds like, I think parents need to be looking at this, don't

714
00:44:36,560 --> 00:44:37,560
they?

715
00:44:37,560 --> 00:44:38,560
As well.

716
00:44:38,560 --> 00:44:39,560
Yes, they do.

717
00:44:39,560 --> 00:44:40,560
They really do.

718
00:44:40,560 --> 00:44:44,680
And I think that hopefully if they're listening to this and trying to understand how to be, but

719
00:44:44,680 --> 00:44:49,720
not necessarily a better parent, but maybe being able to give more parenting to a child.

720
00:44:49,720 --> 00:44:54,400
It's been a, an a, along with, it's not.

721
00:44:54,400 --> 00:44:56,440
We're doing for their children.

722
00:44:56,440 --> 00:45:00,640
This could be an a, for their children.

723
00:45:00,640 --> 00:45:03,840
It's not about saying that someone is a bad parent, right?

724
00:45:03,840 --> 00:45:06,160
It's about an aid helping.

725
00:45:06,160 --> 00:45:07,160
Yes.

726
00:45:07,160 --> 00:45:08,160
Exactly.

727
00:45:08,160 --> 00:45:09,160
Yes.

728
00:45:09,160 --> 00:45:10,160
Exactly.

729
00:45:10,160 --> 00:45:12,960
Well, Marcellus, Dr. Lucille, it's, thank you so much for joining me again.

730
00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:14,760
It's been so, such a pleasure.

731
00:45:14,760 --> 00:45:15,760
Thank you.

732
00:45:15,760 --> 00:45:16,760
Thank you.

733
00:45:16,760 --> 00:45:17,760
Yes.

734
00:45:17,760 --> 00:45:21,360
Well, viewers and listeners, if you'd like to discover more conversations with authors, writers

735
00:45:21,360 --> 00:45:29,160
and thinkers, just like, you know, the authors of our book here, you can find them at author-conversations.com.

736
00:45:29,160 --> 00:45:30,600
Once again, I'm Chris Dabbs.

737
00:45:30,600 --> 00:45:33,480
Thanks for watching and I'll see you next time with author-conversations.

738
00:45:33,480 --> 00:45:35,440
And thank you, Marcellus and thank you, Lucille.

739
00:45:35,440 --> 00:45:36,440
See you soon.

740
00:45:36,440 --> 00:45:37,440
Thank you, Chris.

741
00:45:37,440 --> 00:45:38,440
Thanks very much.

742
00:45:38,440 --> 00:45:39,440
Bye-bye.

743
00:45:40,280 --> 00:45:44,680
If you enjoyed this conversation, you can watch more author-conversations here.

744
00:45:44,680 --> 00:45:45,680
Bye.

745
00:45:45,680 --> 00:45:52,680
Bye-bye.

746
00:45:52,680 --> 00:45:54,680
[Music]